Looking for some Kris info

hockeysew · 25th July 2008, 08:23 PM

Hey all- nice forum you have here.
I am looking for some information on a couple of items that I inherited a couple years ago. I was cleaning out my safe and decided it was time to find a bit more about them.
I know that they are quite old and do not doubt the origin as they were obtained by my grandfather in the Phillipines when he was in the service. I do know for a fact that he was part of the peacekeeping force there in the early 1900's plus served in WWI.

On the scabbard for the larger item there is a handwritten note that reads:

"This weapon was taken from the hands of one of the most dreaded Momo (or Moro?)
outlaws that ever was captured in Mindinao. His name was Monermdo (might be wrong-hard to read) and he had a large following of Momo (or Moro?)bandits. He with 16 of his band were killed by the 6th (section of note missing) near the Romain (?) River June 4th 1911"

This would have been the timeframe that my grandfather was down there.
If anybody has any knowledge on the history these may have I would like to hear from you.
How would I go about finding a value on them?
Or if anybody knows of a good resource I would appreciate it.
Thanks
A few pics: I can provide more detailed ones if you like.

Rick · 26th July 2008, 05:04 AM

Bump

chevalier · 26th July 2008, 05:42 AM

those look superb!

chevalier · 26th July 2008, 05:51 AM

and could the "6th" mean 6th cavalry? they seem to have been active in the philippines around that time.

http://www.6thcavalrymuseum.com/history.html

this might also be informative:

http://www.bakbakan.com/junglep/jp-17.html

hockeysew · 26th July 2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevalier

and could the "6th" mean 6th cavalry? they seem to have been active in the philippines around that time.

http://www.6thcavalrymuseum.com/history.html

this might also be informative:

http://www.bakbakan.com/junglep/jp-17.html

I am not sure. It could be possible as my family are "Horse" people. My dad is a retired veteranarian. Not sure about his dad though. I will have to ask him.

Any idea of a value? I would like to get some insurance on some items but I need an approx. # as I have to give an itemized list to the agent.

Rick · 26th July 2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeysew

I am not sure. It could be possible as my family are "Horse" people. My dad is a retired veteranarian. Not sure about his dad though. I will have to ask him.

Any idea of a value? I would like to get some insurance on some items but I need an approx. # as I have to give an itemized list to the agent.

Sorry, value is not discussed here (part of the rules

)

For insurance purposes you'd need a written appraisal .

They are very nice pieces all; Jose, does the dagger look Katipunan to you ?

The little Gunong is quite lovely; I'll bet Steve lusts in his heart for it .

Battara · 26th July 2008, 08:50 PM

The kris looks Maranao with an anting-anting cloth. Nice to have the attribution and history.

The wavy little knife next to is looks like a gunong. Any close ups of that? Mounts on it and the scabbard look like tarnished silver.

The other knife puzzles me, it could be Northern Luzon, but not seen one like this before. Leather scabbard goes to a Northern Luzon sword. Knife hiit looks to be horn and then brass mounts.

Also, the kris looks like it was cleaned (I see light sand paper scratch marks).

Hope this is a start and thank you for posting this. Please post any other goodies.....

hockeysew · 28th July 2008, 08:58 PM

I snapped some more pics of these 3 items today and hopefully they came out well and show more detail. I am relying on you: THE EXPERTS for any info you can provide. Sorry if the pics arent the best.

Both the Kereis and Gunong appear to be silver mounted. They are tarnished pretty heavily and aside from wiping with a damp cloth I dont want to go further and commit any dis-service to the items.
I do not know the proper nomenclature so bear with, I am more of a Bowie blade person so that is the venacular I shall use. Here goes.

On the Gunong it appears that on the blade side of the hilt it is copper while the handle side is silver. It also appears that one thin silver ring is missing from the scabbard.

hockeysew · 28th July 2008, 08:59 PM

On the Kereis it appears that both of the handle bolsters are also silver, with some ornate work on them. The file work on the blade is superb. I am not sure if all of the strings tied to the handle are supposed to be there but I will not remove them. On the red cloth tied to the handle there is some staining, which to me looks suspiciously like blood stain.
The wrapping material for the handle appears to have different colors but I cannot be sure.

hockeysew · 28th July 2008, 09:00 PM

On the long dagger it appears that the hilt is silver with brass bolsters. The assumption of bone handle I believe is an accurate one. This dagger is of heavy blade construction, probably 3/16 to 1/4" thick. Makes me wonder if it originally wasn't a spear point? The engraving is rather crude and only on one side of the blade. I find the shaking hands engraved near the hilt to be interesting, although I have no idea of the meaning.

I was assured by my father that none of these blades were ever sanded or steel wooled to clean them. According to him his dad had them shipped back to Colorado from the Phillipines while his dad was stationed over there prior to WW1. They hung in the Hardware store that my grandmother and grandfather ran until his death, at which time my father was given them. My dad put them in a footlocker along with grandfathers military stuff.
They have remained in Colorado all this time so rust etc from humidity is not a problem. They now reside in a climate controlled safe.
Any info you guys (and gals) can provide would be great.
How would one go about getting them appraised/value?

Battara · 29th July 2008, 03:26 AM

On the gunong, those are silver mounts on the scabbard with one thin one missing.

On the bottom dagger, I have never seen one like that before, but the hilt I am now convinced is narra wood which has a red color that darkens over time. It is what I would call a northern okir engraving. The hands look familiar - perhaps a Katipunan sign of brotherhood? (would need to look up my info if I can find it).

Again, I don't think the leather sheath goes with the knife, but is early and may belong to a Pampangan sword.

All well preserved.

Reichsritter · 29th July 2008, 05:06 AM

"This weapon was taken from the hands of one of the most dreaded Momo (or Moro?)
outlaws that ever was captured in Mindinao. His name was Monermdo (might be wrong-hard to read) and he had a large following of Momo (or Moro?)bandits. He with 16 of his band were killed by the 6th (section of note missing) near the Romain (?) River June 4th 1911"

Probably "near Ramain", one of the 15 Sultanates created by the Maranaos in the 18th and 19th century.

hockeysew · 31st July 2008, 02:45 AM

I will look into it a bit more and let yall know what I find.
Thanks

Bill · 31st July 2008, 04:18 AM

The two I have are not laminated tend to doubt this one will be. Plenty of rail road tracks by this time.

VANDOO · 31st July 2008, 05:03 AM

I DID A QUICK SEARCH IN THE OLD FORUM ARCHIVES FOR 2000 TO 2004 AND FOUND A POST BY CRAIG TITLED (WHO'S THE BEST APPRAISER) IT WAS POSTED IN 01/15/2002 AND LISTS SEVERAL GOOD APPRAISERS TAKE A LOOK USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION. CONGRADULATIONS ON YOUR THREE ITEMS THEY ALL LOOK GOOD TO ME. GOOD LUCK

25th July 2008, 08:23 PM	#1
hockeysew Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9	Looking for some Kris info Hey all- nice forum you have here. I am looking for some information on a couple of items that I inherited a couple years ago. I was cleaning out my safe and decided it was time to find a bit more about them. I know that they are quite old and do not doubt the origin as they were obtained by my grandfather in the Phillipines when he was in the service. I do know for a fact that he was part of the peacekeeping force there in the early 1900's plus served in WWI. On the scabbard for the larger item there is a handwritten note that reads: "This weapon was taken from the hands of one of the most dreaded Momo (or Moro?) outlaws that ever was captured in Mindinao. His name was Monermdo (might be wrong-hard to read) and he had a large following of Momo (or Moro?)bandits. He with 16 of his band were killed by the 6th (section of note missing) near the Romain (?) River June 4th 1911" This would have been the timeframe that my grandfather was down there. If anybody has any knowledge on the history these may have I would like to hear from you. How would I go about finding a value on them? Or if anybody knows of a good resource I would appreciate it. Thanks A few pics: I can provide more detailed ones if you like.

28th July 2008, 08:58 PM	#8
hockeysew Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9	More Pictures! I snapped some more pics of these 3 items today and hopefully they came out well and show more detail. I am relying on you: THE EXPERTS for any info you can provide. Sorry if the pics arent the best. Both the Kereis and Gunong appear to be silver mounted. They are tarnished pretty heavily and aside from wiping with a damp cloth I dont want to go further and commit any dis-service to the items. I do not know the proper nomenclature so bear with, I am more of a Bowie blade person so that is the venacular I shall use. Here goes. On the Gunong it appears that on the blade side of the hilt it is copper while the handle side is silver. It also appears that one thin silver ring is missing from the scabbard. Last edited by hockeysew; 28th July 2008 at 09:10 PM.

28th July 2008, 08:59 PM	#9
hockeysew Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9	Kereis Pics! On the Kereis it appears that both of the handle bolsters are also silver, with some ornate work on them. The file work on the blade is superb. I am not sure if all of the strings tied to the handle are supposed to be there but I will not remove them. On the red cloth tied to the handle there is some staining, which to me looks suspiciously like blood stain. The wrapping material for the handle appears to have different colors but I cannot be sure.

28th July 2008, 09:00 PM	#10
hockeysew Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9	Dagger Pics On the long dagger it appears that the hilt is silver with brass bolsters. The assumption of bone handle I believe is an accurate one. This dagger is of heavy blade construction, probably 3/16 to 1/4" thick. Makes me wonder if it originally wasn't a spear point? The engraving is rather crude and only on one side of the blade. I find the shaking hands engraved near the hilt to be interesting, although I have no idea of the meaning. I was assured by my father that none of these blades were ever sanded or steel wooled to clean them. According to him his dad had them shipped back to Colorado from the Phillipines while his dad was stationed over there prior to WW1. They hung in the Hardware store that my grandmother and grandfather ran until his death, at which time my father was given them. My dad put them in a footlocker along with grandfathers military stuff. They have remained in Colorado all this time so rust etc from humidity is not a problem. They now reside in a climate controlled safe. Any info you guys (and gals) can provide would be great. How would one go about getting them appraised/value?

26th July 2008, 05:04 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Bump

26th July 2008, 05:42 AM	#3
chevalier Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 119	those look superb!

26th July 2008, 05:51 AM	#4
chevalier Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 119	and could the "6th" mean 6th cavalry? they seem to have been active in the philippines around that time. http://www.6thcavalrymuseum.com/history.html this might also be informative: http://www.bakbakan.com/junglep/jp-17.html

26th July 2008, 08:50 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	The kris looks Maranao with an anting-anting cloth. Nice to have the attribution and history. The wavy little knife next to is looks like a gunong. Any close ups of that? Mounts on it and the scabbard look like tarnished silver. The other knife puzzles me, it could be Northern Luzon, but not seen one like this before. Leather scabbard goes to a Northern Luzon sword. Knife hiit looks to be horn and then brass mounts. Also, the kris looks like it was cleaned (I see light sand paper scratch marks). Hope this is a start and thank you for posting this. Please post any other goodies.....

29th July 2008, 03:26 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	On the gunong, those are silver mounts on the scabbard with one thin one missing. On the bottom dagger, I have never seen one like that before, but the hilt I am now convinced is narra wood which has a red color that darkens over time. It is what I would call a northern okir engraving. The hands look familiar - perhaps a Katipunan sign of brotherhood? (would need to look up my info if I can find it). Again, I don't think the leather sheath goes with the knife, but is early and may belong to a Pampangan sword. All well preserved.

29th July 2008, 05:06 AM	#12
Reichsritter Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 26	"This weapon was taken from the hands of one of the most dreaded Momo (or Moro?) outlaws that ever was captured in Mindinao. His name was Monermdo (might be wrong-hard to read) and he had a large following of Momo (or Moro?)bandits. He with 16 of his band were killed by the 6th (section of note missing) near the Romain (?) River June 4th 1911" Probably "near Ramain", one of the 15 Sultanates created by the Maranaos in the 18th and 19th century.

31st July 2008, 02:45 AM	#13
hockeysew Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9	I will look into it a bit more and let yall know what I find. Thanks

31st July 2008, 04:18 AM	#14
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	The two I have are not laminated tend to doubt this one will be. Plenty of rail road tracks by this time.

31st July 2008, 05:03 AM	#15
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I DID A QUICK SEARCH IN THE OLD FORUM ARCHIVES FOR 2000 TO 2004 AND FOUND A POST BY CRAIG TITLED (WHO'S THE BEST APPRAISER) IT WAS POSTED IN 01/15/2002 AND LISTS SEVERAL GOOD APPRAISERS TAKE A LOOK USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION. CONGRADULATIONS ON YOUR THREE ITEMS THEY ALL LOOK GOOD TO ME. GOOD LUCK