A working bolo for your comments

Ferguson · 7th April 2005, 12:32 AM

Found this nice bolo on Ebay. It was apart. Originally it looked like it was made from a file, but the marks are just from rough filing after forging. I made a little keeper for the butt and epoxied the horn hilt on, then peened the tang. The scabbard fits well, and was made for the knife. The sash cord is not my work.

Overall length is 22" with an 16" blade. Comments appreciated. Luzon perhaps?

Thanks for looking,

Steve

Ian · 7th April 2005, 02:04 AM

Hi Steve:

That's a good looking job you did on the hilt. Seems to be a knife from Luzon. Any idea from the seller as to age. Seems post-WWII in style, although that "chopped off" style of blade has been around much longer than that.

Unusual scabbard.

Ian.

Battara · 7th April 2005, 10:28 PM

Yup....I agree with Ian. Luzon. I have a similar one but I believe Katipunan. Would look nicer to have matching rattan binding replacing the cord. My sheath is leather that shrank due to age.

Ferguson · 7th April 2005, 11:31 PM

Thanks Ian and Battara. I'd love to replace the rattan. How can I learn to braid it? Is there a website or a book that would teach it? I've got several old pieces that need rattan on the scabbard or hilt. Anyone?

Thanks,
Steve

tom hyle · 8th April 2005, 04:09 AM

Nice. The sword is no doubt pleased. This style is a "cut point" version of another syle; the sweep and taper of the blade are very typical, and make sense only within the paradigm of the original, pointed version. This is not to say this is an altered blade, but more likely a blade originally made in a shape which is an altered version of an other, older shape, if you follow me; I'm sorry, but I have no good word for this type of sword when it has the point; I think Therion called a similar one a balasiong or like that. Anyway, this making of a tipless, theoretically/legalistically noncombative version, of swords is an European custom, and common in former Spainish colonies. In other words, the tip is made that way as a statement of nonviolent intent.
I think you're probably OK with the epoxy, but I'll suggest for future repairers that the Luzon cutlers not uncommonly fill a horn cavity at the butt with a wooden cone. Ooh! I knew I was gonna say something else; there's a thread, I think towards the end days of the old forum, where some member or members posted pics and advice about weaving split rattan-skin bindings

I tend to think this particular variation on the hoof shaped pommel is distinctly 20th c.; maybe even post wwII? Anyone got any better input on that?

Ian · 8th April 2005, 01:54 PM

Tom:

I think this style of hilt may date back at least to the late 19th C., but it is certainly more prevalent post-WWII. I apprciate your thoughts about the cut point, and a European/Spanish influence makes a lot of sense. The original blade shape may have been called a matulis (= "pointy" in Tagalog) -- balasiong is a southern Philippines term, I believe, and has no connection to the more familiar balisong.

On the question of rattan bindings, I have been looking for a "how to" source for some time. My favorite style of wrap is that used by the Igorot tribes -- it seems sturdier and more durable than the work of other tribal groups. Igorot basketry is high quality too.

Ian.

RobT · 18th April 2005, 02:16 AM

I have a sibling (perhaps and elder sibling) to your blade. The blade and hilt shapes are virtually identical although the ferrule on my blade appears to be slightly longer. The blade on my piece measures 12 1/8" long and the spine is 5/16" at the hilt. The octagonal faced hilt and ferrule measure 5 1/4" total (the ferrule is 1 3/16" long). The sheath measures 13 7/16" and each side is made out of a different wood. The cord keeper on the sheath is exactly similar to yours. Does anyone know the significance of the shape? For me the most significant thing about this humble bolo is that is fits my hand perfectly and the blade feels like like an extension of my arm. When I first picked it up I thought to myself wow, someone made a blade just for me before I was born.
Sincerely,
RobT

tom hyle · 18th April 2005, 08:32 AM

This blade, with its swelled tip, is similar to the one Conogre showed us. Note that the pommel swells and faces forward, but lacks the truly hooked front of the threadstarter's.

Conogre · 21st April 2005, 07:24 AM

Sweet piece, RobT.
I love the way the scabbard is carved at the top, where it's usually pierced for insertion of a cord or such for carrying, into a stylized human face.
A much more traditional hilt that has the tang running up through it.....not at all humble, and I bet it handles wonderfully, half axe and half jungle knife while 100% weapon if the need arises/arose.
Is it just the light or is the blade slightly concave on the side facing out in the lower photo?
Mike

tom hyle · 23rd April 2005, 03:55 PM

Just reading another thread where I saw that distinct handle on Zelbone's black handled one IDd as Ilongot tribe.

Ian · 23rd April 2005, 04:29 PM

Hi Tom:

Can you be more specific in which thread you were reading about Ilongot knives.

In the picture above of Zel's black-handled knife, that is not a typical Ilongot knife IMHO. Although there is a superficial resemblance in the shape of the hilt, and some Ilongot knives have a cut point, the leather scabbard is completely wrong. Also, Ilongot knives have a blind tang hilt (which I cannot be sure of in this picture).

Ian.

tom hyle · 23rd April 2005, 08:53 PM

It was one of the ones on page 2.

7th April 2005, 12:32 AM	#1
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	A working bolo for your comments Found this nice bolo on Ebay. It was apart. Originally it looked like it was made from a file, but the marks are just from rough filing after forging. I made a little keeper for the butt and epoxied the horn hilt on, then peened the tang. The scabbard fits well, and was made for the knife. The sash cord is not my work. Overall length is 22" with an 16" blade. Comments appreciated. Luzon perhaps? Thanks for looking, Steve Attached Images Last edited by Ferguson; 7th April 2005 at 03:16 AM.

8th April 2005, 04:09 AM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	babble and some vague advice Nice. The sword is no doubt pleased. This style is a "cut point" version of another syle; the sweep and taper of the blade are very typical, and make sense only within the paradigm of the original, pointed version. This is not to say this is an altered blade, but more likely a blade originally made in a shape which is an altered version of an other, older shape, if you follow me; I'm sorry, but I have no good word for this type of sword when it has the point; I think Therion called a similar one a balasiong or like that. Anyway, this making of a tipless, theoretically/legalistically noncombative version, of swords is an European custom, and common in former Spainish colonies. In other words, the tip is made that way as a statement of nonviolent intent. I think you're probably OK with the epoxy, but I'll suggest for future repairers that the Luzon cutlers not uncommonly fill a horn cavity at the butt with a wooden cone. Ooh! I knew I was gonna say something else; there's a thread, I think towards the end days of the old forum, where some member or members posted pics and advice about weaving split rattan-skin bindings I tend to think this particular variation on the hoof shaped pommel is distinctly 20th c.; maybe even post wwII? Anyone got any better input on that? Last edited by tom hyle; 8th April 2005 at 04:45 AM. Reason: adding, adding; so forgetful!

18th April 2005, 02:16 AM	#7
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 487	I have a sibling (perhaps and elder sibling) to your blade. The blade and hilt shapes are virtually identical although the ferrule on my blade appears to be slightly longer. The blade on my piece measures 12 1/8" long and the spine is 5/16" at the hilt. The octagonal faced hilt and ferrule measure 5 1/4" total (the ferrule is 1 3/16" long). The sheath measures 13 7/16" and each side is made out of a different wood. The cord keeper on the sheath is exactly similar to yours. Does anyone know the significance of the shape? For me the most significant thing about this humble bolo is that is fits my hand perfectly and the blade feels like like an extension of my arm. When I first picked it up I thought to myself wow, someone made a blade just for me before I was born. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images Last edited by RobT; 18th April 2005 at 02:40 AM.

23rd April 2005, 08:53 PM	#12
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	"Bolo with wide blade and t-...." It was one of the ones on page 2.

7th April 2005, 02:04 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Hi Steve: That's a good looking job you did on the hilt. Seems to be a knife from Luzon. Any idea from the seller as to age. Seems post-WWII in style, although that "chopped off" style of blade has been around much longer than that. Unusual scabbard. Ian.

7th April 2005, 10:28 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Yup....I agree with Ian. Luzon. I have a similar one but I believe Katipunan. Would look nicer to have matching rattan binding replacing the cord. My sheath is leather that shrank due to age.

7th April 2005, 11:31 PM	#4
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Thanks Ian and Battara. I'd love to replace the rattan. How can I learn to braid it? Is there a website or a book that would teach it? I've got several old pieces that need rattan on the scabbard or hilt. Anyone? Thanks, Steve

8th April 2005, 01:54 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Tom: I think this style of hilt may date back at least to the late 19th C., but it is certainly more prevalent post-WWII. I apprciate your thoughts about the cut point, and a European/Spanish influence makes a lot of sense. The original blade shape may have been called a matulis (= "pointy" in Tagalog) -- balasiong is a southern Philippines term, I believe, and has no connection to the more familiar balisong. On the question of rattan bindings, I have been looking for a "how to" source for some time. My favorite style of wrap is that used by the Igorot tribes -- it seems sturdier and more durable than the work of other tribal groups. Igorot basketry is high quality too. Ian.

18th April 2005, 08:32 AM	#8
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	This blade, with its swelled tip, is similar to the one Conogre showed us. Note that the pommel swells and faces forward, but lacks the truly hooked front of the threadstarter's.

21st April 2005, 07:24 AM	#9
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Sweet piece, RobT. I love the way the scabbard is carved at the top, where it's usually pierced for insertion of a cord or such for carrying, into a stylized human face. A much more traditional hilt that has the tang running up through it.....not at all humble, and I bet it handles wonderfully, half axe and half jungle knife while 100% weapon if the need arises/arose. Is it just the light or is the blade slightly concave on the side facing out in the lower photo? Mike

23rd April 2005, 03:55 PM	#10
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Just reading another thread where I saw that distinct handle on Zelbone's black handled one IDd as Ilongot tribe.

23rd April 2005, 04:29 PM	#11
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Hi Tom: Can you be more specific in which thread you were reading about Ilongot knives. In the picture above of Zel's black-handled knife, that is not a typical Ilongot knife IMHO. Although there is a superficial resemblance in the shape of the hilt, and some Ilongot knives have a cut point, the leather scabbard is completely wrong. Also, Ilongot knives have a blind tang hilt (which I cannot be sure of in this picture). Ian.