Kerises in European Museums

[jonng]

I'm just wondering if fellow collectors can share with us what's on display at the museums near their home, especially those in Europe. I saw these two kerises on the internet ( from The King's Kunstkammer- East Indian Chamber/ The National Museum of Denmark) just a moment ago and wonder if anyone has close up photos of them. They are from " Bantam, Western Java, Before 1674" . If you see these blades without their hilt in an antique shop, would you guess they were pre- 1674?

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by jonng

... If you see these blades without their hilt in an antique shop, would you guess they were pre- 1674?

Hullo everybody

.... probably, as they conform to a Soenda protocol, which is more 'archaic' than either those of either Djawa or Bali. Also, as by 1678 there were not many Soenda kerises being made, if at all.

Best,

[A. G. Maisey]

Following the implosion of Majapahit, the Majapahit craftsmen, including keris makers, moved east into Blambangan and Bali, from Blambangan some of these craftsmen then moved west to Banten.

This is the reason that keris with attributions of Blambangan, Bali, and Banten all bear similarities in their style.

Many years prior to this, when Majapahit was still a powerful political entity there had been an exodus of metal workers and smiths from Pajajaran in Sunda to Majapahit, by the time the smiths moved back to West Jawa again, the art of the keris had already been virtually finished in West Jawa for a lengthy period, but it began again when the craftsmen moved back from Blambangan.

What we see in 17th century keris from West Jawa is not a Sundanese style, but rather the style of Majapahit , which moved from Majapahit into Blambangan, Bali, and West Jawa. Later, this same style resurfaced in the Surakarta keris.


To answer your question as to whether I could guess the age of these keris if I encountered them accidentally.

Very probably not, Jonng. Very probably not.

I have two keris which supposedly came to Holland prior to 1800. There is no documentary evidence to support this, but the man I bought them from could track them through his family, and although I am relying on his story, it was well founded enough to convince me. I am not easy to convince.

In any case, both these keris look as if they came off the workbench last week.

Where a keris has been removed from its place of origin and has been preserved free of rust and ritual washings, it is virtually impossible to estimate its age.

[sirek]

on this site:

http://www.volkenkunde.nl/zoek_colle...chfor1=krissen

( press the button: LICHTBAK )

you see a part of the Collection from:
Rijksmuseum voor Volkenkunde in the Netherlands ( Leiden )

(The description is not comprehensive, but still gives a good impression off what they have in their collection

[Gustav]

The provenience from Banten is also possibly just the place where they have been obtained. Banten was the last trade station of Denmark on Java, closed 1682.

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by jonng

.. I saw these two kerises on the internet ( from The King's Kunstkammer- East Indian Chamber/ The National Museum of Denmark) just a moment ago and wonder if anyone has close up photos of them. They are from " Bantam, Western Java, Before 1674" . If you see these blades without their hilt in an antique shop, would you guess they were pre- 1674?

Hi Jon.. these are Banten kerises, however putting an age to it have always been difficult.. with the size of these pics, it would be virtually impossible.. However, closely looking at these blades with a magnified may help.. Btw, these kerises are featured in Karsten Sejr Jensen's Krisdisk, Chapter 2.