Interesting Ottoman (?) Knife!

Gess · 8th July 2010, 05:44 PM

Hi
What do you say, dear colleagues?

Ottoman, Balkan or Syria?
I have seen signs of all three influences.

Year 1282 (1865), the other inscription to read and translate, I can not.
HANDLE LIKE SHAMSHIR OF BROWN HORN DECORATED WITH BRASS AND RED CORALS, LENGHT 36 CM

Jim McDougall · 8th July 2010, 05:48 PM

The pierced cutout in blade center seems to an Albacete (Spain) feature, and the knife does reflect Ottoman styling. Perhaps this might be from North African regions, Spanish Morocco?

Gavin Nugent · 9th July 2010, 12:24 AM

A beautiful piece. It does seem to have Spanish influence in aspects of manufacture, an overall Moorish appearance.

I like the cut outs. Look to the large centre one, if I was to 'look at clouds', I would see this as a cannon releasing a cannon ball with a puff of smoke and flames from the barrel and touch hole.

Again the ole serpent creeps into the design too.

I hope someone can read the script and offer a more solid direction.

Gav

ariel · 9th July 2010, 04:26 AM

Very nice.

Gess · 9th July 2010, 01:48 PM

Thanks friends!
To me he is the same, just like it. Now all hope for our polyglots in Arabic, can be - in the Turkish language? What is written on the blade? What country belongs Dagger?

Help me please!!!

Jim McDougall · 9th July 2010, 03:24 PM

Hang in there Gess, eventually we will get translation, I suppose there are lots of people on vacation this time of year

This truly is a nice dagger, and naturally the Ottoman influence is profoundly present as all of these areas in North Africa, Arabian littoral, Middle East, Balkans were under that suzerainty. The serpent or dragon head on the quillon terminal which Gav noted is also a distinct Ottoman feature.

The most distinct characteristic is the openwork in the center of the blade which is pretty much a hallmark of Albacete, Spain knives. The presence of this feature would not normally occur on blades outside the Spanish sphere in the Meditteranean in my opinion.
The Ottoman style hilt, which is profusely decorated in red coral and the circled dot motif reflects a distinct Moorish characteristic in often strategically avoiding empty space by applying heavy decoration. The red coral is a well known and highly regarded Maghrebi affectation, and many weapons are beautifully embellished with these.
My inclination is that this dagger is from Spanish regions in Morocco.
I am curious about the date, 1865, did you determine that from some of the blade inscription?
I hope our faithful translator Dom will be coming in on this soon, in the meantime, thank you so much for sharing this beauty with us!!!

All best regards,
Jim

A. G. Maisey · 9th July 2010, 03:32 PM

I have recently seen a number of general purpose knives and cutlery that share many of the design features that can be seen in this knife.

These pieces were with a gentleman from Bosnia who claimed that all pieces originated from Bosnia.

8th July 2010, 05:44 PM	#1
Gess Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 44	Interesting Ottoman (?) Knife! Hi What do you say, dear colleagues? Ottoman, Balkan or Syria? I have seen signs of all three influences. Year 1282 (1865), the other inscription to read and translate, I can not. HANDLE LIKE SHAMSHIR OF BROWN HORN DECORATED WITH BRASS AND RED CORALS, LENGHT 36 CM Attached Images Last edited by Gess; 8th July 2010 at 06:06 PM.

9th July 2010, 12:24 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	beautiful A beautiful piece. It does seem to have Spanish influence in aspects of manufacture, an overall Moorish appearance. I like the cut outs. Look to the large centre one, if I was to 'look at clouds', I would see this as a cannon releasing a cannon ball with a puff of smoke and flames from the barrel and touch hole. Again the ole serpent creeps into the design too. I hope someone can read the script and offer a more solid direction. Gav

8th July 2010, 05:48 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	The pierced cutout in blade center seems to an Albacete (Spain) feature, and the knife does reflect Ottoman styling. Perhaps this might be from North African regions, Spanish Morocco?

9th July 2010, 04:26 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Very nice.

9th July 2010, 01:48 PM	#5
Gess Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 44	Thanks friends! To me he is the same, just like it. Now all hope for our polyglots in Arabic, can be - in the Turkish language? What is written on the blade? What country belongs Dagger? Help me please!!!

9th July 2010, 03:24 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hang in there Gess, eventually we will get translation, I suppose there are lots of people on vacation this time of year This truly is a nice dagger, and naturally the Ottoman influence is profoundly present as all of these areas in North Africa, Arabian littoral, Middle East, Balkans were under that suzerainty. The serpent or dragon head on the quillon terminal which Gav noted is also a distinct Ottoman feature. The most distinct characteristic is the openwork in the center of the blade which is pretty much a hallmark of Albacete, Spain knives. The presence of this feature would not normally occur on blades outside the Spanish sphere in the Meditteranean in my opinion. The Ottoman style hilt, which is profusely decorated in red coral and the circled dot motif reflects a distinct Moorish characteristic in often strategically avoiding empty space by applying heavy decoration. The red coral is a well known and highly regarded Maghrebi affectation, and many weapons are beautifully embellished with these. My inclination is that this dagger is from Spanish regions in Morocco. I am curious about the date, 1865, did you determine that from some of the blade inscription? I hope our faithful translator Dom will be coming in on this soon, in the meantime, thank you so much for sharing this beauty with us!!! All best regards, Jim

9th July 2010, 03:32 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	I have recently seen a number of general purpose knives and cutlery that share many of the design features that can be seen in this knife. These pieces were with a gentleman from Bosnia who claimed that all pieces originated from Bosnia.