New Gunong

[Robert]

Well, the wife has been at it again. She found this on epray and worked out a deal with its owner and now it has been added to my collection. It arrived today so I thought that I would show a few pictures of it for any comments on age or anything else (like if this is a tourist piece or not) that you would like to add.
The hilt I believe is ivory with what I believe to be swasa fittings while the guard is a combination of an engraved gold plated copper plate and an engraved silver plated copper plate. The scabbard is covered in decorative gold plated copper sheets and bands. Total length of the dagger itself is 12-7/8 inches with a 7-1/4 inch engraved laminated blade. My thanks in advance for any comments or information that anyone would like to offer.

Robert

P.S.
Just to make things a little clearer, the "plating" on the scabbard is more like gilding than actual plating.

[migueldiaz]

Don't know much about gunongs but I found this in Federico Malibago's webpages on Moro swords:

"Gunong hilts are what distinguish gunongs most from other Moro weapons. Many associate the bulbous pistol grip style pommel, which is often at extreme near right angles to the hilt proper, as being the traditional gunong hilt. However, truly old gunongs feature a straighter hilt, as can be seen in the related picture of old gunongs. At some point between the turn of the century and the 1930s, gunong hilts gradually changed into the more familiar pistol grip. In this time period as well, gunongs start to appear made with much more extravagant fittings and materials. These newer gunongs often featuring beautifully chased bands on their scabbards, with conspicuous Western style belt clips on the top most band. Also, guards start to appear with more frequency, as well as hilts featuring socketed bulbed ferrules that connect to the bulbous pommel ...

"As to identifying the age of newer gunongs, one must rely on looking at such logical identifying features such as material usage, construction method, etc… The usage of German silver, and aluminum become much more prevalent, like with many Moro swords, after WWII. One piece construction of ferrules and other fittings, versus soldering, also becomes more prevalent after WWII as metal tubing becomes more common in the area in such dubious forms as shell casings. With kris variants one must look at the shape of the luks. Like their larger sword counterparts, more modern tourist gunong blades have much more angular luks. Thinner blades, are also more common on newer pieces. Also newer gunongs tend to be much larger than older pieces, with some pieces verging on sword like proportions. This author personally owns a modern tourist gunong that is over 2 ft in size. Ironically, some of the best Moro chasing/repousse this author has seen have been on newer, often tourist gunongs. Often these newer gunongs also feature either an inlay down the blade consisting of copper, brass, or nickel. It is my personal feeling that many of the newer gunongs are prime examples of Moro craftsmanship, and should be cherished as highly as their plainer older counterparts. However one must take caution to consider these more modern pieces for what they are, modern expressions of traditional art, and if the term applies, sometimes a tourist pieces.

Hence it appears that the subject gunong is a pre-WW2 one.

Then we also see gunongs in Krieger's familiar 1926 publication of Phil. edged weapons, which plate below has this caption:

"Plate 13 -- Hand weapons for cutting, piercing, and stabbing: Knives and daggers. No. 1. Dagger; triangular sectioned, curved, and pointed blade; single cutting edge; carved wood handle. Quinapundar, Samar Island. 2. Dagger "bala-rao"; hastate shape double-edged blade; handle provided with a peculiar finger-fitting grip consisting of extended tang and two horns; silver ferrule at center. Chief defense weapon of the Mandayan, southeastern Mindanao. 3. Woman's knife. Blade curved, designed for striking a slanting blow. Bagobo, southeastern Mindanao. 4. Plain dirk-dagger having curved blade, ferruled wooden handle, and circular guard. Moro, Mindanao. 5. Serpentine Malay dagger; grotesque dugong ivory carving on hilt. Collected by the United States exploring expedition, 1838-1842, under Admiral Wilkes. 6. Malay dagger; curved wooden pistol shape hilt; characteristic serpentine figure carving; straight-edged blade. Wilkes exploring expedition. 7. Serpentine kris-dagger; plain horn handle; engraved circular silver guard and ferrule. Moro, Mindanao. 8. Malay dagger; laminated blade; figured and carved handle of wood. Dyak, Pasir River, southeast Borneo. 9. Punal de kris; blade chased on surface section near handle; wood handle set in socketed brass ferrule. Moro, Mindanao. 10. Dagger; curved, double-edged blade; curved plain wood handle. Moro, Mindanao. 11. Dagger having saberlike blade; metal guard provided with volute tips; carved wood handle; blade chased and inlaid with soft metal at back. Moro, Jolo. 12. Dagger; serpentine blade; metal cross guard; spiral fluted grip of Camagon wood. 13. "Insurrecto" sword-dagger chased blade, pointed and double edged; cross guard; horn handle inlaid with shell mosaic; symbolically figured pommel."

Hope this helps somehow

[Battara]

One caveat to Federico's analysis. The blade appears to me to be a little later, say 1950. I may be wrong, but I have seen the majority of these types of blades as post-WWII. The okir is Maranao and that is still being made today in Marawi City on scabbards.

[migueldiaz]

Hi Jose. It looks like you have a point

Because in Krieger's 1926 examples of gunongs above (i.e., nos. 4, 7, 9, & 10), the hilts are not the pistol grip type yet. Thus the pistol grip may have come out more starting after WW2 as you said.

Thanks.

[Robert]

Hello Lorenz and thank you for all the information and the links to Federico Malibago's web site. It seems as dating these can be just a bit tricky. On the shape of the hilt he says "At some point between the turn of the century and the 1930s, gunong hilts gradually changed into the more familiar pistol grip." Then I found this on the same site. http://home.earthlink.net/~federicom...es/gunong.html Which he dates to the late 19th century. I know that the blade shape is different from the one I have posted but the hilt is quite similar in style.

Jose, thank you for your information as well as I really appreciate all the help that I can get even if it is not what I would like to hear. At the same time on Federico's site I also found this http://home.earthlink.net/~federicomalibago/megunong.html that has the same blade style as mine which he dates to the 1930's because of the fact that "the fittings are all soldered and not of common post WWII materials." The one I have posted it made of copper and what I believe to be swasa. I really need to get this tested to find out for sure. It is not the brass that would be more common after WWII. Also all the seems on the scabbard cover and the hilt fittings are all soldered on mine. There is not one piece of tubing used on it anywhere. One more point of interest is that this piece has a laminated blade and most of the post WWII blades that I have seen are made of monosteel. I will let the experts decide on the dating of this as I have no knowledge of these what so ever.
Thank you both again and also Federico for all your help.

Robert

[migueldiaz]

Thanks Robert for those links (and the pic of Jose's gunongs). Didn't see those webpages before.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Well, the wife has been at it again. She found this on epray and worked out a deal with its owner and now it has been added to my collection. It arrived today so I thought that I would show a few pictures of it for any comments on age or anything else (like if this is a tourist piece or not) that you would like to add.
The hilt I believe is ivory with what I believe to be swasa fittings while the guard is a combination of an engraved gold plated copper plate and an engraved silver plated copper plate. The scabbard is covered in decorative gold plated copper sheets and bands. Total length of the dagger itself is 12-7/8 inches with a 7-1/4 inch engraved laminated blade. My thanks in advance for any comments or information that anyone would like to offer.

Robert

P.S.
Just to make things a little clearer, the "plating" on the scabbard is more like gilding than actual plating.

Bloody hell Robert!
Totally missed this one, what a beauty! I'm drooling on the keyboard!!

You'll have to keep the mrs a little longer now

If memory serves this isn't the first beautiful present she's found you?

[Robert]

Hello Gene, and thank you for your compliments on both the gunong and the wifes taste. Yes, she is definitely a keeper and has shown me she has a great eye for spotting nice items. Last year she found and bought a small collection of very nice Moro items for my birthday. The thing is, she has always referred to my collection as a pile of rusty junk and now she is actively looking for and buying items like this. It is actually starting to make me a bit nervous but like they say, never look a gift horse in the mouth. Seeing as she seems to be on the lookout for Moro items maybe I should drop a few hints about that pira that I've always wanted.

[David]

Just wondering if my questions are unanswerable, since no one has addressed them. Just to state them again...
How accurately can we date this filigree ball feature that we see on some of these fancier dressed gunongs?
How far back can we date the weapon itself? Can't say i've seen anything that can be dated older than very late 19th century.

[kronckew]

i seem to recall reading somewhere that the moro started carrying the gunongs somewhere during the insurrection at the end of the 19c/early 20th when they were forbidden to carry the longer kris and barongs in public. the smaller knives could more easily be hidden yet were still deadly at close quarters.

my humble item, hardened edge is very apparent in vinegar etch.


my touristy one: note the pointy luks, thin sheet metal guard, thinner flat x-section blade vs. diamond x-section in the other, no hardened edge or laminations, grip ball rather than the more form-fitting version of the earlier one that fits nicely between the fingers. decorations are incised in the ball, not wirework.


the top one lives on the night stand by my bed justincase. the touristy one is relegated to the closet.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hello Gene, and thank you for your compliments on both the gunong and the wifes taste. Yes, she is definitely a keeper and has shown me she has a great eye for spotting nice items. Last year she found and bought a small collection of very nice Moro items for my birthday. The thing is, she has always referred to my collection as a pile of rusty junk and now she is actively looking for and buying items like this. It is actually starting to make me a bit nervous but like they say, never look a gift horse in the mouth. Seeing as she seems to be on the lookout for Moro items maybe I should drop a few hints about that pira that I've always wanted.

When she's buying presents like that the only worry is that you might do something to make her stop!

[Battara]

Here is some good information from Federico's site: look at the gunong section.

http://home.earthlink.net/~federicom...roweapons.html

To answer your question, David, the bulbous ferrule seems to be a little later, around the 1930s? Hard to pin down exact dates.

[VANDOO]

YOU ARE RIGHT I USED TO CALL THEM PUNAL. I DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING UNDER PUNAL OR KRIS PICTURES OR TEXT. STONE DID GROUP THE KERIS AND MORO KRIS ALL UNDER KRIS IN HIS BOOK BUT NO GUNONGS PICTURED. I AM SURPRIZED.

[migueldiaz]

another anecdotal evidence, on how the gunongs looked like in the 1920s and earlier (taken from antiques magazine, march 1926) ...