British Infantry Dress Sabre 18th Regt of What?

Cathey · 14th April 2017, 02:39 AM

British Infantry Dress Sabre 18th Regt of What?
Date c1837-1850
Overall Length: 33 ¼” 84.4cm 82 cm in scabbard, 32 ¼” sword only
Blade length: 27” 68.6 cm
Blade widest point: 1” 2.5 cm
Hilt widest point: Cross guard 5 ¼” 13.4 cm
Inside grip length: 4” 10.1 cm
Marks, etc.: Scabbard throat marked 18th Regt

Description
Early 19th century infantry officers dress sabre with brass scabbard. Extremely detailed lions head pommel and backstrap. Ivory grips with incised decoration, curved fullered blade, brass scabbard engraved "18th Regt" at the throat.

General Remarks
Looks like a Victorian Crown in the centre of the cross guard and a Victorian style scabbard. Initially I assumed the Irish 18th Regiment of Foot, however the Indian Army and the East India Company also had 18th Regiments. I have seen two other example of an identical sword attached, however these have leather scabbard with Brass mounts. One of them mentions having the number 10 under the guard.

Any thoughts on what this sword is?
Which 18th Regiment it represents?
What age as it appears non-regulation

Cheers Cathey and Rex.

thinreadline · 14th April 2017, 01:44 PM

This has the characteristics of a British cavalry officers levee sword and some of those of a Generals or Staff Officers pattern of dress sword . Both of which became 'official in the 1830s but were fashionable though unofficial shortly after the Egyptian campaign which finished in 1801 .The styles of levee swords are extremely varied though lion headed scimitar styles prevail . I cant answer your question re the regimental number . Is the blade not decorated as they usually are , that might give some clue . The picture shows a Lancer Officers Levee Pattern sword post 1832.

Cathey · 17th April 2017, 08:39 AM

Hi, you may be onto something with the reference to cavalry not infantry!

I have now found a reference to this sword but with a leather scabbard and fish-skin grip in "The British Cavalry Sword from 1600 by Charles Martyn". The most recent example I have found, again in my database is described as a British lion's head household Windsor castle cavalry dress sword ca 1820, Martyn describes the same sword as Household Cavalry Band Sword. Looks like we are looking a a version of Cavalry Band sword, all I need now is a link to the 18th Regiment somewhere.

The main difference between my sword and the one featured in Martyn's book is the decorated cavalry grip and all brass scabbard. Oh and the engraving marked to the 18th Regiment.

Cheers Cathey and Rex.

Jim McDougall · 17th April 2017, 10:00 PM

I think Readline had something there with the levee sword for officers, and indeed this seemed more a cavalry option. However, band swords of c. 1820s-50s had full brass scabbards as this, and I had one to the 2nd Dragoons with lion head grip but as with most band swords, entirely cast in brass.
The ivory grips, and with the designs seen on this one seem atypical for band swords, but perhaps with connection to Windsor Castle may have been afforded more latitude in such design.

As far as finding regiments, some of the resources for medal collectors, I think there is a 'badges of the British Army' or some similar title. These usually list each unit and its numeric as well as title listings, as well as amalgamations during reorganizations (I think turn of the century and about 1922) where many units were joined and renumbered.

While obviously not concerned with these modern administrative cases, these references are key to early units, their history and collective battle honors.

Andreas · 18th April 2017, 09:53 AM

Hi,
What about the 18th Hussars?
http://britishcavalryregiments.com/38-18H/18H.html

Andreas

Richard G · 19th April 2017, 05:19 PM

Cathey
The engraving to the scabbard would indicate (to me) that this sword belonged to the regiment rather than an individual officer. This would encompass NCO 'S and band swords. I also believe the 18 Hussars were disbanded between 1821 and 1860.
Are you sure the grip is ivory?
Regards
Richard

14th April 2017, 02:39 AM	#1
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	British Infantry Dress Sabre 18th Regt of What? British Infantry Dress Sabre 18th Regt of What? Date c1837-1850 Overall Length: 33 ¼” 84.4cm 82 cm in scabbard, 32 ¼” sword only Blade length: 27” 68.6 cm Blade widest point: 1” 2.5 cm Hilt widest point: Cross guard 5 ¼” 13.4 cm Inside grip length: 4” 10.1 cm Marks, etc.: Scabbard throat marked 18th Regt Description Early 19th century infantry officers dress sabre with brass scabbard. Extremely detailed lions head pommel and backstrap. Ivory grips with incised decoration, curved fullered blade, brass scabbard engraved "18th Regt" at the throat. General Remarks Looks like a Victorian Crown in the centre of the cross guard and a Victorian style scabbard. Initially I assumed the Irish 18th Regiment of Foot, however the Indian Army and the East India Company also had 18th Regiments. I have seen two other example of an identical sword attached, however these have leather scabbard with Brass mounts. One of them mentions having the number 10 under the guard. Any thoughts on what this sword is? Which 18th Regiment it represents? What age as it appears non-regulation Cheers Cathey and Rex. Attached Images

14th April 2017, 01:44 PM	#2
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	This has the characteristics of a British cavalry officers levee sword and some of those of a Generals or Staff Officers pattern of dress sword . Both of which became 'official in the 1830s but were fashionable though unofficial shortly after the Egyptian campaign which finished in 1801 .The styles of levee swords are extremely varied though lion headed scimitar styles prevail . I cant answer your question re the regimental number . Is the blade not decorated as they usually are , that might give some clue . The picture shows a Lancer Officers Levee Pattern sword post 1832. Attached Images

17th April 2017, 08:39 AM	#3
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	Maybe Cavalry afterall Hi, you may be onto something with the reference to cavalry not infantry! I have now found a reference to this sword but with a leather scabbard and fish-skin grip in "The British Cavalry Sword from 1600 by Charles Martyn". The most recent example I have found, again in my database is described as a British lion's head household Windsor castle cavalry dress sword ca 1820, Martyn describes the same sword as Household Cavalry Band Sword. Looks like we are looking a a version of Cavalry Band sword, all I need now is a link to the 18th Regiment somewhere. The main difference between my sword and the one featured in Martyn's book is the decorated cavalry grip and all brass scabbard. Oh and the engraving marked to the 18th Regiment. Cheers Cathey and Rex. Attached Images

17th April 2017, 10:00 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	I think Readline had something there with the levee sword for officers, and indeed this seemed more a cavalry option. However, band swords of c. 1820s-50s had full brass scabbards as this, and I had one to the 2nd Dragoons with lion head grip but as with most band swords, entirely cast in brass. The ivory grips, and with the designs seen on this one seem atypical for band swords, but perhaps with connection to Windsor Castle may have been afforded more latitude in such design. As far as finding regiments, some of the resources for medal collectors, I think there is a 'badges of the British Army' or some similar title. These usually list each unit and its numeric as well as title listings, as well as amalgamations during reorganizations (I think turn of the century and about 1922) where many units were joined and renumbered. While obviously not concerned with these modern administrative cases, these references are key to early units, their history and collective battle honors.

18th April 2017, 09:53 AM	#5
Andreas Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ionian Islands, Greece Posts: 96	Hi, What about the 18th Hussars? http://britishcavalryregiments.com/38-18H/18H.html Andreas

19th April 2017, 05:19 PM	#6
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 406	Cathey The engraving to the scabbard would indicate (to me) that this sword belonged to the regiment rather than an individual officer. This would encompass NCO 'S and band swords. I also believe the 18 Hussars were disbanded between 1821 and 1860. Are you sure the grip is ivory? Regards Richard