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12th June 2011, 04:35 PM
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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
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Mystery knife 'Turkish' / Facon?
This is the one that Norman mentioned. It wasn't part of the SEA collection of course.
It was described as 'Turkish' and 18thC but as Norman pointed out, has a somewhat 'gaucho' look. I'm at a loss with it? Any help appreciated. Last edited by Lew; 12th June 2011 at 07:43 PM. |
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13th June 2011, 01:02 AM
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#2 | |
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
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Quote:
"Turkish" due to the very stylized, star and crescent  may be ... with a lot of imagination, because this knife by it self, hasn't the characteristic of his supposed origin ... Ottoman unless this is a Turk immigrant in Argentina in 18th, who has order it to an Argentinian blacksmith  this knife, very attractive, was longer belong to a "gaucho" than to a Turk, in my humble opinion  ā + Dom |
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13th June 2011, 01:14 AM
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#3 | |
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Member
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Location: The Sharp end
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Quote:
He's normally quite knowledgeable, so it threw me somewhat and I started to wonder if it WAS some strange variant from some far flung corner of Ottoman influence that I'd not seen before.
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13th June 2011, 02:48 AM
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#4 | |
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EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,229
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13th June 2011, 04:47 AM
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 682
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Hi Gene,
This is a tricky one. Are the furnishings made from silver? Cheers Chris |
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13th June 2011, 08:47 AM
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#6 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
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Quote:
Hi Chris I haven't done much to it yet, but they do seem to be....  Best Gene |
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13th June 2011, 10:52 AM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 682
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Hi Gene,
I must confess that the overall shape looks South American and if it is silver.... But the only Argentinean typology that it approximates is what they call a Puņal Salteņo, Salta being a mountainous province quite different from the Pampa plains where mainstream Gaucho culture prevailed. These were shorter than those used in the flatlands and generally of rough manufacture, though notable exceptions exist. One feature of yours which is strongly at odds with classical era Argentinean sheaths is the inch wide loop on the scabbard for the belt to pass through; The local preference for carriage being the insertion of the knife and sheath between the belt and the small of the back, with a tang that engages with the said belt and allows the tucking and withdrawal of the sheath and knife without having to undo the belt. I am not familiar with the decorative pattern on the scabbard and other contributors to this forum may be able to better identify its origins. Something to keep in mind that large numbers of migrants swelled the population of Argentina from the second half of the 19th century onwards, many coming from the Middle East, so it is entirely possible, as Dom suggested, that it was made to the order of, or by, an immigrant from that part of the world. For reference look at page 95 of Doemench's Dagas de Plata. Unfortunately my scanner is down at the moment, so I cannot help with examples of the genre. Cheers Chris |
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14th June 2011, 01:33 PM
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#8 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
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Hi Chris,
So it's a bit of a mystery! You'd say from the weight of evidence that it is a 'gaucho' though would you? Thanks Gene |
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15th June 2011, 03:21 AM
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#9 | |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 682
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Quote:
Don't know. It is a strange piece. More than anything else, that belt loop sticks in my gullet real bad, and the blade does not appear to have been sharpened or used; Is this correct?. From the photo it also appears that the blade was left in the as forged condition, without subsequent polishing; Again, is this correct? Cheers Chris |
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