And again a kris!

Sajen · 24th October 2012, 08:56 PM

Just win another kris by epray.

I don't have a clue from where this blade; maybe Sulu?

As age I would guess end of 19th century?
Blade have silver inlays and until now I can't remember to have seen an "elephant trunk" design like this before.
This kris need a lot of restoration, new asang-asang and the bands of of the handle including the binding. Jose, you would like to do it? I don't plan to restore the broken crest of the pommel since the break seems to be old and patinated. What you think?

Your comments are very welcome,

Detlef

VANDOO · 24th October 2012, 09:17 PM

A VERY INTERESTING OLD KRIS.

I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED IF SOME OF THESE DESIGNS MAY REPRESENT THE LARGE WHITE FISH EAGLES FOUND THRU-OUT THE REGION. ONE OF YOUR PICTURES SURE LOOKS LIKE AN EAGLE WITH ITS EYE AND NOSTRILS AND A FINE CURVED BEAK.
GIVEN THE IMPORTANCE PLACED ON LARGE BIRDS IN MANY SOCIETYS OVER THE WORLD I DO NOT SEE WHY THIS WOULD NOT APPLY TO THE ENTIRE AREA MALAYSIA, INDONESIA AND THE PHILIPPINES ESPECIALLY IN MORE ANCIENT TIMES. IN THE AMERICAS THE THUNDERBIRD, EAGLE AND RAVEN ARE IMPORTANT IN MANY LEGENDS AND TRIBAL LORE AND CEREMONIES. THE MAORI NO DOUBT HAVE MANY LEGENDS OF THE MOA AND OTHER BIRDS. THE DAYAK HAVE SPECIAL BELIEFS ABOUT THE HORNBILL AND ARGUS PHESANT AND NO DOUBT OTHER BIRDS. VARIOUS BIRDS ARE USED ON MASKS AND CARVEINGS IN AFRICA AND IN NEW GUINEA. MANKIND HAS ALWAYS LIKED TO DECK THEMSELVES OUT IN FEATHERS.
SO JUST TO STIR THE POT I WILL SAY IT REPRESENTS THE LARGE WHITE FISH EAGLE THAT ROAMS FREELY AMONG THE LANDS AND ISLANDS OF THAT PART OF THE WORLD, NOT THE ELEPHANT OR MAKARA

WHILE I AM STIRRING PERHAPS THIS FORM OF HANDLE REPRESENTS A EAGLE HEAD INSTEAD OF THE LOUD AND OFTEN OBNOXIOUS COCATOO WHICH TO MY KNOWLEGE HAS NO PLACE IN TRIBAL FOLKLORE IN THE PHILIPPINES.

Battara · 25th October 2012, 02:49 AM

You may be onto something Barry. I think that on Maguindanao kris the "eagle" is actually that, not the "elephant" look.

I agree that this is old, but that "eagle" is a form I have not seen much of. So I look at the inlaid okir on the blade, which looks either Maranao or Maguindanao.

Spunjer · 25th October 2012, 03:02 AM

in Mindanao and Sulu, Barry, it's the chicken. with supernatural power.

Battara · 25th October 2012, 05:01 AM

So Ron you think this is the sarimanok?

By the way, Detief, you have pm.........

Spunjer · 25th October 2012, 01:23 PM

not quite sure if it's chicken (sarimanok), or a sarinaga, jose. need to see the whole form... for instance, in this aprticular Maranao kris, we have a sarinaga.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13413
barry made a good point tho, regarding the importance of birds in the old belief. me and lorenz had an interesting discussion regarding this topic. perhaps he can chime in.

Quote:

INSTEAD OF THE LOUD AND OFTEN OBNOXIOUS COCATOO WHICH TO MY KNOWLEGE HAS NO PLACE IN TRIBAL FOLKLORE IN THE PHILIPPINES.

you nailed this one right on the head, barry!

as far as the eagle tho: the philippines have the monkey eating eagle, or philippine eagle..

Sajen · 25th October 2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

You may be onto something Barry. I think that on Maguindanao kris the "eagle" is actually that, not the "elephant" look.

I agree that this is old, but that "eagle" is a form I have not seen much of. So I look at the inlaid okir on the blade, which looks either Maranao or Maguindanao.

Hello Jose,

thank you for comment and email!

So I am not the only one who have a problem by the "eagle" katik (kembang kacang) area.

Any thoughts about the age from this blade?

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 25th October 2012, 09:17 PM

Just noted that i have forgotten to upload one picture from the auction. This picture is very interesting since it seems that the tang is round.
Any thoughts?

Maurice · 25th October 2012, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Just noted that i have forgotten to upload one picture from the auction. This picture is very interesting since it seems that the tang is round.
Any thoughts?

That's indeed interesting!
Ps. why are they always turning around the handle the wrong way when it had been loose?

Sajen · 25th October 2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

A VERY INTERESTING OLD KRIS.

I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED IF SOME OF THESE DESIGNS MAY REPRESENT THE LARGE WHITE FISH EAGLES FOUND THRU-OUT THE REGION. ONE OF YOUR PICTURES SURE LOOKS LIKE AN EAGLE WITH ITS EYE AND NOSTRILS AND A FINE CURVED BEAK.

Hello Barry,

interesting observation and thoughts. You mean pic. 9, correct?

Regards,

Detlef

24th October 2012, 08:56 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	And again a kris! Just win another kris by epray. I don't have a clue from where this blade; maybe Sulu? As age I would guess end of 19th century? Blade have silver inlays and until now I can't remember to have seen an "elephant trunk" design like this before. This kris need a lot of restoration, new asang-asang and the bands of of the handle including the binding. Jose, you would like to do it? I don't plan to restore the broken crest of the pommel since the break seems to be old and patinated. What you think? Your comments are very welcome, Detlef Attached Images

25th October 2012, 09:17 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Just noted that i have forgotten to upload one picture from the auction. This picture is very interesting since it seems that the tang is round. Any thoughts? Attached Images

24th October 2012, 09:17 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A VERY INTERESTING OLD KRIS. I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED IF SOME OF THESE DESIGNS MAY REPRESENT THE LARGE WHITE FISH EAGLES FOUND THRU-OUT THE REGION. ONE OF YOUR PICTURES SURE LOOKS LIKE AN EAGLE WITH ITS EYE AND NOSTRILS AND A FINE CURVED BEAK. GIVEN THE IMPORTANCE PLACED ON LARGE BIRDS IN MANY SOCIETYS OVER THE WORLD I DO NOT SEE WHY THIS WOULD NOT APPLY TO THE ENTIRE AREA MALAYSIA, INDONESIA AND THE PHILIPPINES ESPECIALLY IN MORE ANCIENT TIMES. IN THE AMERICAS THE THUNDERBIRD, EAGLE AND RAVEN ARE IMPORTANT IN MANY LEGENDS AND TRIBAL LORE AND CEREMONIES. THE MAORI NO DOUBT HAVE MANY LEGENDS OF THE MOA AND OTHER BIRDS. THE DAYAK HAVE SPECIAL BELIEFS ABOUT THE HORNBILL AND ARGUS PHESANT AND NO DOUBT OTHER BIRDS. VARIOUS BIRDS ARE USED ON MASKS AND CARVEINGS IN AFRICA AND IN NEW GUINEA. MANKIND HAS ALWAYS LIKED TO DECK THEMSELVES OUT IN FEATHERS. SO JUST TO STIR THE POT I WILL SAY IT REPRESENTS THE LARGE WHITE FISH EAGLE THAT ROAMS FREELY AMONG THE LANDS AND ISLANDS OF THAT PART OF THE WORLD, NOT THE ELEPHANT OR MAKARA WHILE I AM STIRRING PERHAPS THIS FORM OF HANDLE REPRESENTS A EAGLE HEAD INSTEAD OF THE LOUD AND OFTEN OBNOXIOUS COCATOO WHICH TO MY KNOWLEGE HAS NO PLACE IN TRIBAL FOLKLORE IN THE PHILIPPINES.

25th October 2012, 02:49 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	You may be onto something Barry. I think that on Maguindanao kris the "eagle" is actually that, not the "elephant" look. I agree that this is old, but that "eagle" is a form I have not seen much of. So I look at the inlaid okir on the blade, which looks either Maranao or Maguindanao.

25th October 2012, 03:02 AM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	in Mindanao and Sulu, Barry, it's the chicken. with supernatural power.

25th October 2012, 05:01 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	So Ron you think this is the sarimanok? By the way, Detief, you have pm.........