Where is this sheat from?

Sajen · 14th May 2010, 02:38 AM

Can someone tell me from where this sheat originate? Sorry for the poor quality, the pictures are from the seller. And the toe is also not from me!

Rick · 14th May 2010, 03:11 AM

It is too your toe !

Sajen, could you flip the first picture so the scabbard faces the other way ?

Sajen · 14th May 2010, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

It is too your toe !

Sajen, could you flip the first picture so the scabbard faces the other way ?

Here the mirrored picture.

Rick · 14th May 2010, 03:42 AM

I wonder if this is not a composite keris ; I'm betting most likely it is .

The Madura jejeran; the handle does not line up with the 'thorn' on the wrongko .

I cannot place the scabbard .

A picture of the keris; perhaps ?

Sajen · 14th May 2010, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I wonder if this is not a composite keris ; I'm betting most likely it is .

The Madura jejeran; the handle does not line up with the 'thorn' on the wrongko .

I cannot place the scabbard .

Yes, of course a composite keris and I am also sure that the blade not original to the sheat since the middle of the jejeran not line up with the "Ri cangkring" of the wrongko.

I've bought it because the sheat. Is it maybe a coteng form?

This is my hope!

The blade is a very poor one, this suggest the picture and seems to be from Java or Madura.

A. G. Maisey · 14th May 2010, 05:28 AM

Not all keris have always been dressed according to the high standards of late 19th century, through to 21st century connoisseurs.

I have seen a great many keris from various areas that do not follow what current collectors consider to be correct, in that blades are a poor fit in wrongkos, alignment of hilt to wrongko is poor, and in general, the keris have simply been not very neat. However, these keris I have in mind have not been what we think of when we talk of composites, rather, they have been keris that were collected in SE Asia pre-WWII and in some cases, have been genuine old keris held by families in Jawa.

In times past - and for that matter, today also, not every blade is going to have its own individually bespoke wrongko crafted for it. If a near enough fit can be achieved by use of a used wrongko, that is often good enough. Not all people in Jawa now, or in the past, could afford to pay a maker to produce the perfect wrongko for a keris, they would use wrongkos in various stages of completion bought ready made from the market, and finish the fitting themselves.

We're used to see perfection as the benchmark, but in reality, this is a pretty recent phenomenon. People in the past living in rural villages far removed from centers of power did the best they could with what they could get, and this was often very far from perfect.

We should not label a keris as "composite", just because it falls short of perfection in fit and finish.

In respect of this wrongko, I'm inclined to think it might be an old North Coast Jawa one. I have a similar one that has a probably reliable provenance of 19th century Cirebon area.

14th May 2010, 02:38 AM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,788	Where is this sheat from? Can someone tell me from where this sheat originate? Sorry for the poor quality, the pictures are from the seller. And the toe is also not from me! Attached Images

14th May 2010, 03:11 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	It is too your toe ! Sajen, could you flip the first picture so the scabbard faces the other way ?

14th May 2010, 03:42 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I wonder if this is not a composite keris ; I'm betting most likely it is . The Madura jejeran; the handle does not line up with the 'thorn' on the wrongko . I cannot place the scabbard . A picture of the keris; perhaps ?

14th May 2010, 05:28 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	Not all keris have always been dressed according to the high standards of late 19th century, through to 21st century connoisseurs. I have seen a great many keris from various areas that do not follow what current collectors consider to be correct, in that blades are a poor fit in wrongkos, alignment of hilt to wrongko is poor, and in general, the keris have simply been not very neat. However, these keris I have in mind have not been what we think of when we talk of composites, rather, they have been keris that were collected in SE Asia pre-WWII and in some cases, have been genuine old keris held by families in Jawa. In times past - and for that matter, today also, not every blade is going to have its own individually bespoke wrongko crafted for it. If a near enough fit can be achieved by use of a used wrongko, that is often good enough. Not all people in Jawa now, or in the past, could afford to pay a maker to produce the perfect wrongko for a keris, they would use wrongkos in various stages of completion bought ready made from the market, and finish the fitting themselves. We're used to see perfection as the benchmark, but in reality, this is a pretty recent phenomenon. People in the past living in rural villages far removed from centers of power did the best they could with what they could get, and this was often very far from perfect. We should not label a keris as "composite", just because it falls short of perfection in fit and finish. In respect of this wrongko, I'm inclined to think it might be an old North Coast Jawa one. I have a similar one that has a probably reliable provenance of 19th century Cirebon area.