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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
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Hello all, I've been a lurker for a while and finally decided to join. I had accidently stumbled upon the world of ethnographic weapons and discovered the amazing vareity of weapons especially in those cultures outside of mainstream western media that exist (I admit my initial interest in weapons came about because of video games
![]() ![]() Here is a sword which didn't look to be of Indian origin at all to me and I havn't seen on any other sites. It's a straight sword from the south and said to be from 16th century (earlier than most of the indian swords found out there). It has a sharp point tip, again unusual in Indian swords, and a thick rib running down center of blade and somewhat unusual wide hilt (though the site calls it typical) and widening of of blade near hilt. I quite like the look and style and am surprised that it has been on sale for so many monthes. It's from the Ashoka Arts website at : Sword at Ashoka Arts Would appreciate any comments or additional info on this type of sword. |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 194
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hi wepnz
at thirst, hello in this forum. until some years i thought also that al indian weapons are curved sabres like tulwars ore maybe shamshir swords. i thought in india was also cheap quality weapons produced and also used. at one day i saw at an gun show the first khanda sword and this was the beginning from my khanda collection.( i bought not these khanda, i found an very better one). your question now. yes these sword from ashoka is an realy good indian sword. it is also an rare sword. these sword was used from the hindus in the vijayangare period( 15-17th. ct) this swords was made for fighting. if you would like find better informations lock in the great book from elgood " hindu arms and ritual" page 87-93. if these book not in your collection buy it, it is an great investment!!! |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,718
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Wepnz,
You must remember that India is a very big country, with a very different history. To try to get an idea, I would recommend that you buy books on the early history of India, buy you should be aware that most of the books only cover a specific area, like Rajasthan. Happy reading ![]() |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nothern Mexico
Posts: 458
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Not an unusual piece, as an indian pattern, neither a very old piece. There are much older pieces, in every configuration you can imagine. India is an amalgamation of peoples, nations and cultures of every sort. To begin with, I recommend you to read "The Indian Sword", by P. S. Rawson. It has many illustrations and explanations.
My best regards Gonzalo |
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 61
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"Not an unusual piece, as an indian pattern, neither a very old piece. There are much older pieces, in every configuration you can imagine"
By any measure these straight swords are not common or 'usual', and 16th/17th century is generally agreed to be early, if going by R.Elgood's book with the dating. Finding Indian swords older than this is not especially easy, but of course there are older pieces existing. It would be interesting to hear your argument that this is not an early sword Gonzalo, thanks. Rawson's book is generally accepted as being fairly flawed as far as dating/descriptions go, but it does show some interesting museum pieces in the illustrations. Last edited by ashoka; 19th December 2008 at 01:40 PM. |
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#6 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
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Guys
It is against forum rules to discuss any items currently up for sale. Lew |
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#7 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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Actually, it's discussion of auctions that is forbidden, Lew.
![]() Stefan, let me know if you want me to lock this thread, or if you're okay with discussions about items you have offered for sale. |
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#8 |
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 61
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Hi Andrew, the discussion already took place 3 months ago, but I was just interested to know whether Gonzalo was referring to this sword type in general, or the specific sword on the website with his comments. Certainly I am happy with discussion about any swords, that is the purpose of this forum after all! although perhaps my reply would have been more appropriate in September...
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#9 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
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![]() Quote:
Does this mean items in the swap forum can be discussed? |
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#10 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
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[QUOTE=Andrew]Actually, it's discussion of auctions that is forbidden, Lew.
![]() If you put something for sale on an website is this also an auction ?? Ben |
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#11 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,224
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Mmmm...
items on SWAP are not much different from items on other websites IMHO. You can even advertise your website same as Artzi and Arjan do now and than. So than you could start discussing both an item on a website and swap do's and don'ts are not easy in this field. ![]() Pretty rare sword BTW IMHO / Not common or usual at all ![]() |
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#12 | ||
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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![]() Quote:
Quote:
![]() Let's get back to discussion of the weapon. I find debate over the forum rules tiresome. |
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#13 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
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Ah, I was meaning to reply to this but the time just slipped by. Anyhow I agree with Ashoka (I'm guessing you are actually from the Ashoka Arts site), I find this sword unusual and rare. I am planning to find some time to look up Rawson's book which is rare to find and havn't yet thoroughly checked other detailed tomes, but from common reference books or anything on the web this type of sword simply cannot be found. I have not found it on any auction sites, arms dealers or swap forums.
Also another reason this sword is probably old, because the post 17th century examples are dominated by curved tulwar or khanda and firangi type for straight swords. An interesting feature as I noted is the sharp point, and this convergence to the point actually begins quite a ways before in the blade so it's it's a smooth triangle all the way back to hilt. Many of the straight swords have khanda type flange like heads or straight uniform width blade with triangle point at end liek gladius. Closest thing are sword in sculptures which date back to earlier periods (actually one of the few sources for earlier centuries as very few pieces seem to exist before 16th). Yet again I don't see long flowing point like this sword, usually they bulge out before coming to a point. In fact, if it hadn't been noted on the site as Indian origin, I would never have guessed it. The handle and hilt are the only Indic like features at first, yet even the pattern on the pommel could be mistaken for Chinese type styling. I would appreciate if Gonzalo can refer me to any other examples of this type of Indian sword. |
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