ID Help Needed

Robert · 7th December 2006, 04:26 AM

Just picked this up and now would like to know what it is.

The sword is 24" long and the blade is 1-1/2' wide at its widest. These are the pictures from the auction and the only ones I have. Is this a tourist piece or the real thing? Thanks for any help that is offered.

Robert

VVV · 7th December 2006, 07:45 AM

Robert,

It's a sword from West Sumba.
For some reason they seem to be more rare than the Kabeala of East Sumba.
When I was in Sumba, in the early 90's, at the country side people still carried the Kabeala as an everyday blade.
But for your blade I don't think it was for everyday use?
I never saw anybody carry them anyway.
What I found interesting there was that only the undressed blades were sold at the market place, no complete swords.
Please post better pictures when you recieve it.

Michael

Battara · 7th December 2006, 11:09 PM

Never seen one before like this, thank you for sharing.

Robert · 11th December 2006, 10:25 PM

Well the sword arrived today and apparently the previous owner polished all the brass and copper fittings and then applied a coat of polyurethane to keep them from tarnishing. Now I have to figure out how to remove it without causing any damage to the rest of the wood. I have not been able to find any information other than what VVV has already offered. I am hoping that the good people of the forum will help me with further information on this item.

Blade length is 19-1/8"
Blade at widest point 1-7/16"
Blade at hilt 15/16"
Blade thickness at hilt 1/4"
Hilt length 5-1/16"
Scabbard length 25-1/16"

Robert

VVV · 12th December 2006, 12:08 AM

Robert,

I have only seen one like this before (in Leiden).
It looks like the real thing and a very good one too.
If you ever get tired of it please let me know

Can't find my source at the moment but it's probably for ceremonial use.
In West Sumba, unlike East Sumba, they like to show their wealth more open in public.

Michael

Battara · 12th December 2006, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Well the sword arrived today and apparently the previous owner polished all the brass and copper fittings and then applied a coat of polyurethane to keep them from tarnishing. Now I have to figure out how to remove it without causing any damage to the rest of the wood.

I would keep it as it - more protective than trying to get it off. If you really need to get it off, try acetone, but as you mentioned, it may discolor the wood. Leaving it as is is probably the best and safest course of action.

Robert · 12th December 2006, 07:29 PM

Michael and Jose,
Thank you both very much for your help and opinions on this sword. As it appears that no one else is interested in this would either one of you like to hazard a guess on the age of this item? Thanks again for all your help. Michael, if I decide not to keep this I will let you know.

Robert

Tim Simmons · 12th December 2006, 09:29 PM

I have pieces that were covered in polyurethane varnish. As long as they have not been painted with oil based paints which your item has not. A commercial varnish remover is okay. Any original organic lacquer should be okay but I would not let the stuff stay on too long on stain wood and the like. I have removed varnish from old blades and the patina of the blade prior to varnishing has always been there.

Robert · 14th December 2006, 01:49 AM

Tim, thank you for the advice on the removal of the coating. I think at this point in time that I will leave it "as is" until I get more information on its age and history. Thank you all again for helping me with this.

Robert

Robert · 15th December 2006, 08:17 AM

OK, here are my next questions. What does anyone think went into the grooves on the scabbard, woven rattan bands or do you think that they are they just there as decoration? I also have some brass sheeting the same thickness as used for the clover shaped decorations on the hilt. Would it be a good idea to replace the missing and broken ones or just leave them as they are?

VVV · 15th December 2006, 08:31 AM

I don't think they used rattan on Sumba.
It's some other fiber material at f.i. the scabbards of the Kabeala of East Sumba.

Michael

PS PM your mail if you want reference pictures.

Robert · 15th December 2006, 08:58 AM

VVV, I have sent a PM to you with my with e-mail address. Thank you for your offer of pictures as they would really help. You used f.i. in your reply and I hate to admit that I do not understand what that means.

Could you please explain? Thank you again for all your help.

Robert

7th December 2006, 04:26 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	ID Help Needed Just picked this up and now would like to know what it is. The sword is 24" long and the blade is 1-1/2' wide at its widest. These are the pictures from the auction and the only ones I have. Is this a tourist piece or the real thing? Thanks for any help that is offered. Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 7th December 2006 at 04:36 AM.

11th December 2006, 10:25 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Well the sword arrived today and apparently the previous owner polished all the brass and copper fittings and then applied a coat of polyurethane to keep them from tarnishing. Now I have to figure out how to remove it without causing any damage to the rest of the wood. I have not been able to find any information other than what VVV has already offered. I am hoping that the good people of the forum will help me with further information on this item. Blade length is 19-1/8" Blade at widest point 1-7/16" Blade at hilt 15/16" Blade thickness at hilt 1/4" Hilt length 5-1/16" Scabbard length 25-1/16" Robert Attached Images

7th December 2006, 07:45 AM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Robert, It's a sword from West Sumba. For some reason they seem to be more rare than the Kabeala of East Sumba. When I was in Sumba, in the early 90's, at the country side people still carried the Kabeala as an everyday blade. But for your blade I don't think it was for everyday use? I never saw anybody carry them anyway. What I found interesting there was that only the undressed blades were sold at the market place, no complete swords. Please post better pictures when you recieve it. Michael

7th December 2006, 11:09 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Never seen one before like this, thank you for sharing.

12th December 2006, 12:08 AM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Robert, I have only seen one like this before (in Leiden). It looks like the real thing and a very good one too. If you ever get tired of it please let me know Can't find my source at the moment but it's probably for ceremonial use. In West Sumba, unlike East Sumba, they like to show their wealth more open in public. Michael

12th December 2006, 07:29 PM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Michael and Jose, Thank you both very much for your help and opinions on this sword. As it appears that no one else is interested in this would either one of you like to hazard a guess on the age of this item? Thanks again for all your help. Michael, if I decide not to keep this I will let you know. Robert

12th December 2006, 09:29 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I have pieces that were covered in polyurethane varnish. As long as they have not been painted with oil based paints which your item has not. A commercial varnish remover is okay. Any original organic lacquer should be okay but I would not let the stuff stay on too long on stain wood and the like. I have removed varnish from old blades and the patina of the blade prior to varnishing has always been there.

14th December 2006, 01:49 AM	#9
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Tim, thank you for the advice on the removal of the coating. I think at this point in time that I will leave it "as is" until I get more information on its age and history. Thank you all again for helping me with this. Robert

15th December 2006, 08:17 AM	#10
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	OK, here are my next questions. What does anyone think went into the grooves on the scabbard, woven rattan bands or do you think that they are they just there as decoration? I also have some brass sheeting the same thickness as used for the clover shaped decorations on the hilt. Would it be a good idea to replace the missing and broken ones or just leave them as they are?

15th December 2006, 08:31 AM	#11
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I don't think they used rattan on Sumba. It's some other fiber material at f.i. the scabbards of the Kabeala of East Sumba. Michael PS PM your mail if you want reference pictures.

15th December 2006, 08:58 AM	#12
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	VVV, I have sent a PM to you with my with e-mail address. Thank you for your offer of pictures as they would really help. You used f.i. in your reply and I hate to admit that I do not understand what that means. Could you please explain? Thank you again for all your help. Robert