British Wootz Sword

ariel · 3rd August 2007, 04:35 AM

Well, boys, how do you like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=019
Private purchase from India?

TVV · 3rd August 2007, 04:52 AM

Are we 100% sure this is wootz? Sometimes pattern welded steel may look like wootz, especially if there are plenty of layers. Still a nice and peculiar blade though.

rand · 3rd August 2007, 09:52 AM

I agree with TVV, don't see anything that says wootz. Layers of steels in a sword was typical so the blade could better absorb shock without beaking. Sometimes over zealous people polish and etch these blades and then say they have a damascus blade. Even in Islamic swords not all blades are meant to be ecthed to show a pattern, they can be made for function alone.

Certainly could not tell from the photo's provided.....

rand

Lew · 3rd August 2007, 03:59 PM

I don't think this is wootz it just does not look right. Could be some form of shear steel or another type of laminate. I also see a couple of spots near the edge that may be showing signs of welding flaws or delamination. From what I have read that English steel was considered better quality steel even by the Indians so why would the gentry want to have a sword made with native steel? Where are our wootz experts they should chime in on this one.

Lew

Jeff Pringle · 5th August 2007, 05:56 PM

British blade steels were made by the blister/shear process and after 1740 increasingly via melting the steel in crucibles. When forged in a certain way, many steels made in a crucible can develop patterns akin to wootz if the right trace elements are present, but the carbon content would be much lower than in true wootz. In modern steel making it is considered a flaw and is called ‘alloy banding,’ however the mechanism is the same one that creates the beautiful patterns in wootz. The lighter lines in the pattern would be soft ferrite [or perhaps low-alloy pearlite?] rather than the super-hard cementite responsible for wootz’ legendary edge.
Due to seeing in this blade some 90 degree line intersections and a few isolated bold lines like in the right side of the second photo above, I’d guess it must be alloy-banded crucible steel rather than shear steel, but I’ve only seen a few examples of shear steel so I don’t know all the potential patterns it can exhibit.

Lew · 5th August 2007, 06:23 PM

[QUOTE=Jeff I’d guess it must be alloy-banded crucible steel rather than shear steel, but I’ve only seen a few examples of shear steel so I don’t know all the potential patterns it can exhibit.

[/QUOTE]

Jeff

Are you saying that you think it is wootz?

Lew

3rd August 2007, 04:35 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	British Wootz Sword Well, boys, how do you like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=019 Private purchase from India?

3rd August 2007, 09:52 AM	#3
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Wootz? I agree with TVV, don't see anything that says wootz. Layers of steels in a sword was typical so the blade could better absorb shock without beaking. Sometimes over zealous people polish and etch these blades and then say they have a damascus blade. Even in Islamic swords not all blades are meant to be ecthed to show a pattern, they can be made for function alone. Certainly could not tell from the photo's provided..... rand

3rd August 2007, 03:59 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I don't think this is wootz it just does not look right. Could be some form of shear steel or another type of laminate. I also see a couple of spots near the edge that may be showing signs of welding flaws or delamination. From what I have read that English steel was considered better quality steel even by the Indians so why would the gentry want to have a sword made with native steel? Where are our wootz experts they should chime in on this one. Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 3rd August 2007 at 04:17 PM.

3rd August 2007, 04:52 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Are we 100% sure this is wootz? Sometimes pattern welded steel may look like wootz, especially if there are plenty of layers. Still a nice and peculiar blade though.

5th August 2007, 05:56 PM	#5
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	British blade steels were made by the blister/shear process and after 1740 increasingly via melting the steel in crucibles. When forged in a certain way, many steels made in a crucible can develop patterns akin to wootz if the right trace elements are present, but the carbon content would be much lower than in true wootz. In modern steel making it is considered a flaw and is called ‘alloy banding,’ however the mechanism is the same one that creates the beautiful patterns in wootz. The lighter lines in the pattern would be soft ferrite [or perhaps low-alloy pearlite?] rather than the super-hard cementite responsible for wootz’ legendary edge. Due to seeing in this blade some 90 degree line intersections and a few isolated bold lines like in the right side of the second photo above, I’d guess it must be alloy-banded crucible steel rather than shear steel, but I’ve only seen a few examples of shear steel so I don’t know all the potential patterns it can exhibit.

5th August 2007, 06:23 PM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	[QUOTE=Jeff I’d guess it must be alloy-banded crucible steel rather than shear steel, but I’ve only seen a few examples of shear steel so I don’t know all the potential patterns it can exhibit. [/QUOTE] Jeff Are you saying that you think it is wootz? Lew