Wilah from?

Harley · 2nd December 2011, 12:07 AM

Hello everyone,

I am new on this forum, but it feels like I been here for months, there is so much to read and to learn.
But I have a question, and I hope you can help me with it.
I recently bought a keris, with a Sumatra sheat, de keris fits like a glove, en there are no sins of recent adjustment to it, there was a Bali hilt on it, I think Ganesha,
de keris itself looks like it’s been polish, just what I have seen on Bali wliah’s , the peksi is about 8 mm thick and 8 cm long, so no small hilt on this one, the wilah without the peksi is 38 cm.
The pendok looks like it’s home made, and not a very good job.
The only thing I now about it is that came to Nederland between the two WW, the person that brought it here was a teacher in Indonesia.
So the question is, is this a Bali wilah or Sumatra or ......?
I hope you guys can help me out, and sorry for my bad writing.

kind regards, Ben

Sajen · 2nd December 2011, 11:40 AM

Hello Ben,

first welcome to the forum!

The sheath isn't from Sumatra but from Bali/Lombok and called sesrengantan but not a very well carved one and I think that the blade is as well from Bali/Lombok not only because it is polished. Do you have opened the pendok which have a East Java/Madura style? Maybe it was attached because the gandar is damaged?

Regards,

Detlef

Harley · 2nd December 2011, 12:49 PM

Thanks Detlef,

I was convinced that it was Sumatra, but i am glad to hear that is is from Bali, then things come together.
I have removed the pendok, and i don't no if you mean the lower part of the warangka(gandar)?, if so it was not in good condition, and definitely was made for a pendok, the bottom was straight cut, and open.
But that is no problem, i could replace that part.

regards Ben

Sajen · 2nd December 2011, 05:53 PM

Hello Ben,

yes, the part down from the sampir/warangka or wrongko is called by javanese keris gandar; by keris from Bali penyejer. The pendok from your keris isn't a balinese one so my assumption that it was placed to cover a demaged gandar/penyejer. A gandar isn't never original cut in down or open.

Regards,

Detlef

David · 2nd December 2011, 06:07 PM

There is also a chance that this is a Bali/Madura piece, that is, a keris from Madura that is for a member of cultural Balinese living there. This type of pendok with the open window down the center is not something i have seen on Bali or Lombak keris and is more common to Madura/East Jawa wrongko. I would also like to see a closer view of the hilt because i an not convinced from the present photos that this hilt is truly Balinese. There appears to be a missing "selut" of some sort and it does not look like the kind that i would expect on a Balinese hilt. At 15 inches this could well be a Bali/Lombok blade, but they often tend to be even longer than that. The state of polish alone is not necessarily an indicator of place of origin.

Sajen · 2nd December 2011, 07:19 PM

When I look again to your sheath I understand why you have thought that it is a sheath from Sumatra/Palembang. The sheath look like the carver hasn't known how to look a sesrengentan sheath from Bali and have created a mixture from this both sheaths.
For better understanding I have attached pictures from your sheath beside from both sheath forms. The sesrengentan pictures are taken from the book "Keris Bali Bersejarah".

2nd December 2011, 12:07 AM	#1
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	Wilah from? Hello everyone, I am new on this forum, but it feels like I been here for months, there is so much to read and to learn. But I have a question, and I hope you can help me with it. I recently bought a keris, with a Sumatra sheat, de keris fits like a glove, en there are no sins of recent adjustment to it, there was a Bali hilt on it, I think Ganesha, de keris itself looks like it’s been polish, just what I have seen on Bali wliah’s , the peksi is about 8 mm thick and 8 cm long, so no small hilt on this one, the wilah without the peksi is 38 cm. The pendok looks like it’s home made, and not a very good job. The only thing I now about it is that came to Nederland between the two WW, the person that brought it here was a teacher in Indonesia. So the question is, is this a Bali wilah or Sumatra or ......? I hope you guys can help me out, and sorry for my bad writing. kind regards, Ben Attached Images

2nd December 2011, 07:19 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	When I look again to your sheath I understand why you have thought that it is a sheath from Sumatra/Palembang. The sheath look like the carver hasn't known how to look a sesrengentan sheath from Bali and have created a mixture from this both sheaths. For better understanding I have attached pictures from your sheath beside from both sheath forms. The sesrengentan pictures are taken from the book "Keris Bali Bersejarah". Attached Images

2nd December 2011, 11:40 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Hello Ben, first welcome to the forum! The sheath isn't from Sumatra but from Bali/Lombok and called sesrengantan but not a very well carved one and I think that the blade is as well from Bali/Lombok not only because it is polished. Do you have opened the pendok which have a East Java/Madura style? Maybe it was attached because the gandar is damaged? Regards, Detlef

2nd December 2011, 12:49 PM	#3
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	Thanks Detlef, I was convinced that it was Sumatra, but i am glad to hear that is is from Bali, then things come together. I have removed the pendok, and i don't no if you mean the lower part of the warangka(gandar)?, if so it was not in good condition, and definitely was made for a pendok, the bottom was straight cut, and open. But that is no problem, i could replace that part. regards Ben

2nd December 2011, 05:53 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,791	Hello Ben, yes, the part down from the sampir/warangka or wrongko is called by javanese keris gandar; by keris from Bali penyejer. The pendok from your keris isn't a balinese one so my assumption that it was placed to cover a demaged gandar/penyejer. A gandar isn't never original cut in down or open. Regards, Detlef

2nd December 2011, 06:07 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	There is also a chance that this is a Bali/Madura piece, that is, a keris from Madura that is for a member of cultural Balinese living there. This type of pendok with the open window down the center is not something i have seen on Bali or Lombak keris and is more common to Madura/East Jawa wrongko. I would also like to see a closer view of the hilt because i an not convinced from the present photos that this hilt is truly Balinese. There appears to be a missing "selut" of some sort and it does not look like the kind that i would expect on a Balinese hilt. At 15 inches this could well be a Bali/Lombok blade, but they often tend to be even longer than that. The state of polish alone is not necessarily an indicator of place of origin.