Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th February 2013, 01:11 PM   #1
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default Three African spears for ID

Hi Guys,

Just got these three. Apologies for the somewhat dark photos - snowing like crazy here and the light is pretty poor indoors. I didn't get overall shots but hopefully this is enough to help out with IDs.

1. Spear with worked stem with little "cubes" or boxes. Blade has a couple of curved lines as decoration. Pretty heavy duty construction. 170cm overall. Spade like foot. Seems like the sort of work associated with Nigeria or Cameroon?

2. Double headed spear - head is 41.5cm overall. This came with a shaft and is over 200cm put together. But no foot/butt so I didn't bother photographing it. No ideas really on this, at first I thought it might be Bagirmi but I have my doubts.

3. Spear with brass decoration and silver collar. Overall 154cm. Spade like foot. Seems like somewhere in the Sahel or Saharan Africa?

Any and all help appreciated!
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Iain; 16th February 2013 at 01:12 PM. Reason: Text to fit photo order
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2013, 10:35 PM   #2
Martin Lubojacky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 841
Default

Hi Iain,
The head of upper spear (not the shape, but the style of surface - flat section followed by a rib) shows a likeness to another Indian spear called Ballam (again from the book by Tirri). Also the "silver" ring on the third spear is not, I think, typically African as well as the style of divinding of the second spearhead.
Regards,
Martin
Martin Lubojacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2013, 10:35 AM   #3
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky
Hi Iain,
The head of upper spear (not the shape, but the style of surface - flat section followed by a rib) shows a likeness to another Indian spear called Ballam (again from the book by Tirri). Also the "silver" ring on the third spear is not, I think, typically African as well as the style of divinding of the second spearhead.
Regards,
Martin
Hi Martin,

Thanks for the help.

Another friend has also been helping with some ideas.

1. I didn't think Indian spears had a shoe like this one? It seemed typical of African work to me?

2. This double head looks like it should in fact be from Ethiopia and a ceremonial/parade item. You can see similarity in the head shapes with Ethiopian and Somali spears - and there are other double headed spears from Ethiopia

3. This is probably Madagascar? The style is very close to other Madagascar spears.
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2013, 02:12 PM   #4
Martin Lubojacky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 841
Default

Hi Iain,
I am just giving ideas for disposal. I have problem with scanner now, but I will try to post copies of two pictures (you will find similarities) and I do also hope it will be OK with copyright..... - This as far as Nos. 1 and 3 are concerned.
Re. double headed spear - it is true it resembles Abyssinian and Somali spearheads. But I donīt think it was designed as ceremonial. I am sure here are much more experienced and well-versed collectors here, maybe they will also join this thread
Regards,
Martin
Martin Lubojacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2013, 02:37 PM   #5
Pukka Bundook
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 803
Default

Iain,

I think you are close re. the origin of these spears.
I'm no expert, but the decoration to me appears correct for the areas you mention.

Martin,
I agree that the manner of manufacturing the first spear has similarities with some from India, but the decoration appears much more African to me.
India, diverse as it is, still retains certain types of decoration, and I don't think the above fit.

All best,
Richard.
Pukka Bundook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2013, 05:20 PM   #6
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Hi Martin,

I'm really grateful you are sharing your thoughts. I am no expert in spears, so I can easily be wrong.

For 3 I thought this was more or less the classic Madagascar design? I saw many spears before with this attribution - but you are right that the silver collar is very unusual.

For 1 I am very interested to see any related photos. I can find nothing in this style really in my few books. I think for copyright it will be ok - it is only for discussion and should be covered by "fair use".


Richard,

Thanks for the encouraging words. Spears are a new area for me and I am trying to learn as much as I can.
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2013, 12:21 PM   #7
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,430
Default

Hi Iain

Good looking spears - would you be able to post images of them full length, also of the butt ends ?

Spears with those shoe ends are usually from the Sahel of West Africa, although Madagascar spears are similar, but the Madagascar ones I have seen usually have longer shoes. Isn't there an illustration of a cavalryman with a double-bladed spear in the 19th century exploration book by Denham ? The types with the inlaid brass like that, I usually think of as Hausa... Its very difficult to allocate African spears to specific tribes (although I havn't really made a close study). The following very general points may assist :-

a) Where there is Islamic influence, the construction is normally more sophisticated.
b) Spears north of the Zambesi are usually socketed and tanged southwards.
c) Spears sourced in the UK are more likely to be from ex-British colonies, eg Nigeria. Likewise spears from France would be more likely to originate from ex-French colonies etc...

I am attaching some extracts from the book "Weapons & Implements of Savage Races" by L Montague, 1921 that may be of interest. Also images of a couple of my Sahel spears for general comparison.

All the best
Colin
Attached Images
     
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2013, 03:54 PM   #8
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colin henshaw
Hi Iain

Good looking spears - would you be able to post images of them full length, also of the butt ends ?

Spears with those shoe ends are usually from the Sahel of West Africa, although Madagascar spears are similar, but the Madagascar ones I have seen usually have longer shoes. Isn't there an illustration of a cavalryman with a double-bladed spear in the 19th century exploration book by Denham ? The types with the inlaid brass like that, I usually think of as Hausa... Its very difficult to allocate African spears to specific tribes (although I havn't really made a close study). The following very general points may assist :-

a) Where there is Islamic influence, the construction is normally more sophisticated.
b) Spears north of the Zambesi are usually socketed and tanged southwards.
c) Spears sourced in the UK are more likely to be from ex-British colonies, eg Nigeria. Likewise spears from France would be more likely to originate from ex-French colonies etc...

I am attaching some extracts from the book "Weapons & Implements of Savage Races" by L Montague, 1921 that may be of interest. Also images of a couple of my Sahel spears for general comparison.

All the best
Colin
Hi Colin,

Thanks for the info and images.

Actually I had hoped I had something like what Denham pictured. Unfortunately the differences were pretty clear once it was in hand.

I'll try to take some overall shots later this week. Bit tricky with the big one due to the size, the butts on two of them are already shown above, the Ethiopian one I didn't photograph the shaft since it has no butt (doesn't look like it ever did).
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2013, 02:01 PM   #9
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

An image showing all three overall - not the best image I'm afraid. But the large one impacts a lot what distance I can shoot from!
Attached Images
 
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2013, 05:25 PM   #10
Richard G
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 405
Default

Christopher Spring's, "African Arms and Armour" page 38 has a picture of a lancer of the Sultan of Bagirmi with a double headed lance very similar to No.2.
Regards
Richard
Richard G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2013, 06:01 PM   #11
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G
Christopher Spring's, "African Arms and Armour" page 38 has a picture of a lancer of the Sultan of Bagirmi with a double headed lance very similar to No.2.
Regards
Richard
Hi Richard,

I believe the illustration you mention is the taken from Denham, from memory Nachtigal reproduced it as well.

I'd had some hopes this spear would be from that region - but sadly, once it was in hand it became fairly obvious it wasn't. The scale of the heads is not correct and the construction and details like the shape of the shaft are not correct for the Bagirmi region. Certainly an interesting style and I still hope someday to acquire an example.
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2013, 09:51 AM   #12
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,430
Default

Thanks for posting further images. Not really much more to say except - nice old spears !

Regards.
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.