Video, poison keris blade

[Pusaka]

At the end portion of this video (see link) on Silat they briefly speak about the keris. It mentions that some Malay keris blades have poisoned tips. I remember a Silat practitioner tell me that during battle keris blades were sometimes poisoned with frog poison (same poison used in other country’s to poison darts and arrow heads) Just wondering if anyone else had heard similar?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7BX3pNoOSGg

[Bill S]

The Dentrobatid frogs that are used for arrow poisons in South America do not occur in the Old World. And I'm not familiar with any other species that are used in the old world for such purposes. Certainly there are many plant poisons available, but I don't know of them being used on keris blades. I would not be surprised if there might be some residual arsenic from the traditional cleaning processes, but most likely only in small quantities. At a guess, I would think that the lack of a smooth, polished surface and the presence of residual, possibly decomposing aromatic plant oils plus incidental contaminations in a tropical environment could contribute to infections in a wound from a keris - and that this might be the source of the legends about poison blades.

[David]

I think the story, as described here, is very good television.

[David]

Pusaka, i know this is an interest of yours as i see that you have introduced this subject with other vidoes in this thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=poison+keris
I am not really sure that this thread is going to bring up anything new on this topic, but i do urge all participants to read this old thread first for a better sense of what we have already discussed.

[A. G. Maisey]

I've got something about blade poisoning running around in the back of my memory. I cannot recall it in detail, I know I've got it somewhere in my references, but its years and years since I read it.

What I think is so is this:- concoctions made of various animal and vegetable ingredients were used as a blade soak, probably the principal ingredient was the sap of the upas tree; the sap of the upas tree is used as an arrow poison throughout maritime SE Asia, and I believe in the Malay Peninsula; upas sap acts on the heart and causes heart failure.

I will not vouch for any of this, as it is probably more than 20 years since I read it, and it is a subject that has only very slight interest for me, however, it might be enough to get somebody started on finding out exactly what the real situation is.

[Pusaka]

I remember reading about the upas tree back in my school days, the locals perpetuated the story that the tree was so poisonous that no other living thing, plant or otherwise could live within a few meters radius of the tree

I have seen blades poisoned in the Philippines but I am not convinced by the method used. They fry poisonous spiders and worms together and then add acid. The blade is then dipped in this mixture and is considered poisoned. The thing is many venoms are protein based. If you expose the venom to high temperatures surly it will breakdown the protein and render the venom harmless. I think the same with plant toxins. If they are used during the forging of the blade when it is red hot then surly it will destroy the toxin.

If as they say the toxin was added during the forging than perhaps its as simple as quenching the blade in a strong solution of arsenic.

I don’t think it is a common practice and perhaps it was only done during battles but I don’t think it impossible since this has been done in several cultures. I remember reading how in ancient Ireland a battle took place in which sword blades were treated with a plant toxin (probably monkshood) so that even the slightest cut would be fatal.

But yes a blade soaked whilst cool is much more probable, dangerous thing though

[Lew]

I have nicked myself once or twice on some keris and I am still here to talk about it . It makes a good story.



Lew