Skull & crossbones sword....Masonic?

[Jim McDougall]

I found these two photos of a most unusual sword in my files, and if I recall, it was a query sent to me for identification about 20 years ago.
I do not have notes on it, but I think I felt it was probably a Masonic, perhaps Tyler's sword.
The blade seem like a French cuirassiers from Napoleonic period, but in these Masonic situations, it seems lodges would often use any number of sword types for this station.

The skull & crossbones was one of many regalia themes, and there are Masonic daggers with these kinds of hilts I believe.

I would really appreciate any input from others who have seen similar type hilts and edged weapons, and what sort of context they may have been from.

[fernando]

Good old Jim, what made you resurrect these photos after 20 years ? . Are you by now willing to join the cult ? . Once the blade is no issue as already identified, have you tried posting the whole setup in a specialized Masonic venue ? .

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Good old Jim, what made you resurrect these photos after 20 years ? . Are you by now willing to join the cult ? . Once the blade is no issue as already identified, have you tried posting the whole setup in a specialized Masonic venue ? .

Its an affliction that has driven me my entire life, called 'curiosity' an inate compulsion.
Many of weapons in my collection, resurrected after over 15 years in storage have been seen with 'new more educated eyes', and the mountains of decades old notes and files are seen the same way.

I know what research I have found in the often very subjective review of Masonic items, but wanted to know if others may have encountered similar items out there. It is an extremely esoteric field, but why not give it a go?
My suggestion of the sometimes unusual swords that have found use as Tyler's swords in lodges of the country have many times given wonderful stories of the weapons' heritage.

[David]

Jim, while skull and crossbones is indeed a known Masonic symbol most masonic swords don't seem to incorporate that symbolism. That is not to say none, and i have indeed seen many that do, however the in those cases usually shows up as the pommel as in the example i have posted here. I can't say i have ever seen the skull as a hand guard as in this case. Are there any other supporting Masonic symbols to be found on this sword? I'd have to see other angles of this sword, but the images you show make this skull hand guard seem like an afterthought, not something originally made for the sword. It really gives me more the impression of a pirate thing rather than a Masonic thing, but again, it's not impossible that this was made to be a Masonic sword. Other collaborating symbols on the sword would go a long way to place it definitely as Masonic.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

Jim, while skull and crossbones is indeed a known Masonic symbol most masonic swords don't seem to incorporate that symbolism. That is not to say none, and i have indeed seen many that do, however the in those cases usually shows up as the pommel as in the example i have posted here. I can't say i have ever seen the skull as a hand guard as in this case. Are there any other supporting Masonic symbols to be found on this sword? I'd have to see other angles of this sword, but the images you show make this skull hand guard seem like an afterthought, not something originally made for the sword. It really gives me more the impression of a pirate thing rather than a Masonic thing, but again, it's not impossible that this was made to be a Masonic sword. Other collaborating symbols on the sword would go a long way to place it definitely as Masonic.

Thanks very much David. Those hilts you posted are the kind of examples I had seen in regalia material but cannot recall the purpose or symbolism, i.e. particular order or award, rank etc.

The skull and crossbones as I recall represented the 'memento mori' (remember you too shall die) in some of the rather grim devices etc.
and was seen on tombstones of Masons.
Regarding the pirates as you mention, it seems there have been suggestions (as yet unsupported) that perhaps some pirates had Masonic connection due to skull and crossbones. While there were likely instances of such connections possible, the idea remains tenuous.

I wish I had access to the sword, but it was just these photos from years ago, and while it seemed a French blade, no markings are recalled.

I think you're right, this hilt seems to be a rather elaborate fabrication and seems perhaps related to the type daggers you posted.

Thank you again for answering and posting these examples.

[Jim McDougall]

Looking further online I found the following information:

Apparently in late 18th century use of smallswords with skull and crossbones may have appeared in Scottish Rite Lodges and used in consistory degree , the final portion of the31st and 32nd degrees. It is suggested that these uses may have been worked in the French emigre lodges in New York or Charleston, but unclear on if these were only instances.

In "Swords of the Masonic Orders", John D. Hamilton, Man at Arms, May,June 1979, one of the skull and crossbone hilts as posted by David is shown, as a 'Consistory' sword of late 18th c.
While the term 'consistory' is usually used ecclesiastically in the Catholic Church, here it refers to the council in the completion of these degrees in Freemasonry.

Although it seems there were established as a form in the 18th century, these hilts were in use in latter 19th century in Ames Sword Co. catalogs.and still referring to 'consistory' association.

So while there seems to have been an established association of the skull and crossbones theme with these, it seems clear this example I have posted is as David suggests, a fabricated hilt certainly not homogenous with these sword components.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jim,
I have always found these people to be extremely helpful where they can.
https://www.quatuorcoronati.com
My Regards,
Norman.