A naginata ... real or fake.

[fernando]

Gentlemen, i am desperatly needing help on this one !
I felt tempted for this piece, without having absolutey no idea how to check these things genuinity. I have just disassembled the blade and i see inscriptions that could (could) be a good sign. I still have to spend some time to examine the whole piece integrity; some parts are a bit 'tired'. But before that, i would like so much to know whereas this is a real naginata or a worthless dud.
Any help will be appreciated,


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[Rich]

Fernando

Form looks legit. Can't read signature (posted upside down). In terrible shape. Can tell nothing of hamon nor hada. Would cost in four figures to properly restore (not a DIY project). Better be real inexpensive IMHO.

[pbleed]

This is certainly a "real: naginata. It certainly dates from the Shinto- era - about 1700, I'd say, but I certainly can't read the signature - too rusty. We foreigners think nagtnata a complex, interesting, and graceful. Japanese collectors see them as "odd" and in Japan that is never good. This is not a good "investment" IMHO.
Peter

[colin henshaw]

Looks a genuine old naginata. Personally, I like to see such good old, honest signs of age and wear. Not so keen on the woodworm holes though. But, judging Japanese arms and armour is a very different thing compared to ethnographic/tribal.

I understand that naginata were particularly favoured as weapons by female samurai ?

[CutlassCollector]

I would agree, it looks good and also not so far gone that it cannot be re-polished, but as Rich says, that is expensive but costed per inch of blade so less for a naginata than a long sword!

Unlike most other collectors, who tend to preserve the sword as it is, those who favour Japanese swords prefer them shiny to show off the grain and the hamon.

Naginata were used extensively by samurai warriors, by foot soldiers in battle and by samurai wives I think mostly as home defence.

The characters look much more than a signature and may well include a date or the place it was made. Dates are usually in a form relating to the year of the then emperor's reign.

Go for it!!

[Ren Ren]

Unfortunately, I can't translate the signature, but I really liked the calligraphy. Beautiful, strong, confident handwriting!

[fernando]

Gentlemen, i am amazed with the excelent support given so far, for which i am so much obliged. It is visible that i am no Nihonto connoisseur, or i would never 'invest' in an example in such poor condition, thus having no chance to recuperate its original splendor. Still i am pleased to have gone for it, and so happy that it is the real thing, which was after all my actual concern.
So i assume that, having no risk to further damage its collectable charm, i will deal with it as i deal with 'normal Western' swords, that is, eliminate the active rust with the minimum abrazion possible and one or two touch ups on the pole.
Meanwile i would like to show what has been done on the blade, and will also post new photos of the characters, testing different lights and positions, with hopes that they are now (more) readable, which possible success would be of a great added valuable for me.
Again my appologies to those who collect this type of weaponry, hoping they will be tolerant to my crime.


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[Interested Party]

Interesting find Fernando. What is the overall length?

For my own edification. In a piece like this with evidence of an insect infestation does the piece need to be treated to prevent the risk of the infestation spreading to other items it is stored with?

[ariel]

That is exactly the reason I do not collect Nihonto: it is supposed to be either perfect or it is junk

[Klop]

my 2 cents; the tang (nakago) seems to be shortened, ending square and I would expect it to be about the same length as the blade part. At the japanese sword forum Nihonto Message Board they have a translation help section, advice would be to post it there. Signatures often follow patterns, in this case possibly: Provence name -honorary title- smith name-"made by". Please let us know what it turns out to be

Oh, and maybe redundant; don't clean/sand/polish/whatever the nakago. Color and filemarks are indicators of age.

Kind regards,
Eric

[fernando]

Thank you Eric; will do. Someone is already helping me establish such contact.
And by the way; about the shortened tang:

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/naginata.html

[Battara]

Originally Posted by ariel

That is exactly the reason I do not collect Nihonto: it is supposed to be either perfect or it is junk

I'll make a small correction to this statement: if the blade is very old, like Koto (500+ years old) or so, then some flaws are in fact expected and do not detract horribly to the value. Old blades like this may have some kizu or blisters, but where they are on the blade and how they are positioned will determine value. On later pieces, Ariel is correct - perfection is preferred if not expected.

(Sorry Ariel for the accidental editing - wrong button )

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Battara

... perfection is preferred if not expected...

Let us then give a chance to a wider notion of perfection.
Suppose, in my imagination, i find evidence that the item in discussion was brought back by Portuguese navigators during the XVI century or so.
I would clearly reject any proposal to swap it for any 'common' example in pristine condition ... with ID card and all.
No doubt my Naginata is not indicated for Nihonto perfectionists but, would be the 'perfect find' for me .


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[colin henshaw]

Looks like you did well there, Fernando. Congratulations !

[fernando]

Thank you Colin .