A 16th century burgonet for comment

[Cerjak]

Hi everybody

Here some pictures from a 16th century burgonet .
Any comment on it will be welcome

Cerjak

[Cerjak]

last pics

Weight is 2200 grammes

[A Senefelder]

Cerjak, this helmet seems to be not a burgeonnette but a close helmet base on the location of the single holes on either side for visor hinge rivets. Burgeonnettes usually have pairs of holes set close to the browline at the point where it breaks a 90 degree angle about the middle of the ear. This thread demonstartes the usual location of the holes for hinge rivets for burgeonnettes http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16224 and this thread shows and example of the typical location for the visor rivets for close helmets http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16455 . Attached is a pic of a Maximillian close helmet I used to own that shows the location of the single holes on either side for the visor as well. This helmet also demonstrates a construction method that was not uncommon at the time but that I haven't gotten to see first hand much. The bowl is made in two halves, but rather than being simply crimped together along the comb ( this thread has an example of this construction method http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16171 ) and lap riveted at the front and back of the helmet bowl, this helmet has been forge welded together along the comb and lap riveted at the browline at the front and back of the helmet bowl. I don't get to see this method of construction ( an expidiency between the helmet bowl hot raised from a single piece of steel or iron and the two piece helemt bowl od riveted and crimped construction )much.

[A Senefelder]

This thread also has some good close up pics of the more common " crimped comb " construction method http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15762

[Cerjak]

Hi Senefelder

Many thanks for your comments ,I was looking in the Cameron Stone P102
F129 a similar helmet said to be a "German barred Burgonet " I guess that the 2 holes in the rear side was a plume holder.
I have to say taht this helmet even with a lot of missed parts is very heavy if I have to compare to my other Burgonet .
Do you thing that it could be a 16 th century construction ?

Regards

Cerjak

[A Senefelder]

Cerjak

I guess that the 2 holes in the rear side was a plume holder.

The holes at the back on either side of the comb are for a plume holder, the holes I was referencing are the hole to either side of the helmet in case I caused some confussion in my previous post.

F129 a similar helmet said to be a "German barred Burgonet "

You know thats a good point. I had forgotten that somewhat rare type of helmet and it certainly shouldn't be ruled out although the type is a definite 17th century form and I suspect and earlier date for this piece.

Do you thing that it could be a 16 th century construction ?

The method of constructing this particular helmet had been almost completely eclipsed in favor of the quicker to make " crimped comb " method by the early years of the 17th century due to the need to make larger and larger quantities of gear for the ever growing protonational armies of a Europe in the grips of the Wars of Religion. I would say that the method of construction puts this pretty definitely in second half of the 16th century. Another tell is the roped borders, another element that disappeared rapidly in the 17th century as the every growing demands of bigger armies mandated quicker simpler manufacture ( roped borders was purely decorative and therfore not necessary to function at all and quickly went by the wayside in the 17th century ).