1796 spanish broadsword - hilt ?

Rivkin · 8th February 2005, 06:44 PM

Hi,

I've seen a surprising big number of 1796 (or so claimed) spanish cavalry broadswords, but all with hilts different from the one that I usually see in catalogues.

Is it possible or it's a scam ?

Thank you,

K.Rivkin

Jim McDougall · 8th February 2005, 07:38 PM

Rivkin,
Not sure what you're referring to...is there a picture of the type you're alluding to? There are a number of Spanish 'cavalry' swords I believe made by repro companies, but those are quite obvious.Can you possibly be a bit more specific?
Jim

Marc · 8th February 2005, 11:29 PM

I want to echo Jim's questions.
Do you mean this one when referring to the one you usally see in the catalogues?

Just to see what we're really talking about...

Rivkin · 9th February 2005, 12:13 AM

Thank you very much - yes, that's the one. I've seen so many of them with the same guard and blade, but the hilt itself would have a different shape - for example it would contain extra rings below the pommel, or it would be conical, or it would simply be a tube with a pommel...

Marc · 9th February 2005, 09:38 AM

Ah, you mean the grip/handle...

yes, there's indeed some variation, though the one in the above picture, barrel-shaped, copper -bound, and with the four longitudinal iron ribs is the most characteristic. You're going to find the same variety of handles in the Spanish Cavalry broadsword M1728 (with a hilt of the so-called "bilbo" type). Officers and special corps (like the Royal Guard) kind of "personalized" their weapons, sometimes, so you can find things like etchings in the guard or alternative handles (some I've seen, cylindrical and silver-bound with turk's heads comes to mind, for example). Not to mention much later "restorations" and ... well, "improvements".

I wonder if I answered your question or not...

Marc

Jim McDougall · 9th February 2005, 11:53 PM

Hi Marc,
Outstanding! I'm glad you came in on this as I had hoped. Your perception was right on target in thinking of this particular form, which as you note is often termed 'bilbo'. With your knowledge on Spanish swords, I wonder if you could give your take on the origin of this term, which seems rather speculative in some references which suggest the city of Bilbao as possibly the derivation.
Best regards,
Jim

8th February 2005, 06:44 PM	#1
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	1796 spanish broadsword - hilt ? Hi, I've seen a surprising big number of 1796 (or so claimed) spanish cavalry broadswords, but all with hilts different from the one that I usually see in catalogues. Is it possible or it's a scam ? Thank you, K.Rivkin

8th February 2005, 11:29 PM	#3
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	I want to echo Jim's questions. Do you mean this one when referring to the one you usally see in the catalogues? Just to see what we're really talking about... Last edited by Marc; 8th February 2005 at 11:40 PM.

8th February 2005, 07:38 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Rivkin, Not sure what you're referring to...is there a picture of the type you're alluding to? There are a number of Spanish 'cavalry' swords I believe made by repro companies, but those are quite obvious.Can you possibly be a bit more specific? Jim

9th February 2005, 12:13 AM	#4
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Thank you very much - yes, that's the one. I've seen so many of them with the same guard and blade, but the hilt itself would have a different shape - for example it would contain extra rings below the pommel, or it would be conical, or it would simply be a tube with a pommel...

9th February 2005, 09:38 AM	#5
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Ah, you mean the grip/handle... yes, there's indeed some variation, though the one in the above picture, barrel-shaped, copper -bound, and with the four longitudinal iron ribs is the most characteristic. You're going to find the same variety of handles in the Spanish Cavalry broadsword M1728 (with a hilt of the so-called "bilbo" type). Officers and special corps (like the Royal Guard) kind of "personalized" their weapons, sometimes, so you can find things like etchings in the guard or alternative handles (some I've seen, cylindrical and silver-bound with turk's heads comes to mind, for example). Not to mention much later "restorations" and ... well, "improvements". I wonder if I answered your question or not... Marc

9th February 2005, 11:53 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Hi Marc, Outstanding! I'm glad you came in on this as I had hoped. Your perception was right on target in thinking of this particular form, which as you note is often termed 'bilbo'. With your knowledge on Spanish swords, I wonder if you could give your take on the origin of this term, which seems rather speculative in some references which suggest the city of Bilbao as possibly the derivation. Best regards, Jim