Chillanum

mahratt · 13th April 2010, 05:22 AM

Dear Forumites,
Allow me to introduce myself: my name is Dmitry and I am from Russia. I am particularly interested in the weapons from India/Iran as well as from their immediate neighbors. I'd like to show you this dagger: IMHO, Chillanum. I would date it to mid/end 18th century and attribute it to South India. I'd very much like to get your opinions.
Thanks in advance.

Gavin Nugent · 13th April 2010, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Dear Forumites,
Allow me to introduce myself: my name is Dmitry and I am from Russia. I am particularly interested in the weapons from India/Iran as well as from their immediate neighbors. I'd like to show you this dagger: IMHO, Chillanum. I would date it to mid/end 18th century and attribute it to South India. I'd very much like to get your opinions.
Thanks in advance.

Whilst I can not with conviction accurately comment on this piece I would like to welcome to the community Dmitry.
I like the delicate and slender lines that this dagger has, thank you for sharing.

Gavin

Dom · 13th April 2010, 01:15 PM

Hi "mahratt"
you 'r welcome

India weapons it's not too much my field

my comments will be what I found in my doc
your "Chilanum" seems more 17th than 18th century, or in middle of both, this was a favorite dagger of the Marathas of West/Central India
and, I love the elegant shape of the blade

hope so that you will have more things to share with us

à +

Dom

Jens Nordlunde · 13th April 2010, 02:21 PM

Hi Dmitry and welcome to the forum.

Yes, you have a chilanum, and I agree with Dom that it is 17th century, but I would find it safer to say Deccan.

In the Junagarh Fort in Bikaner, you can find quite a number of chilanums and other weapons, some marked with the Bikaner dot marking – but they origin from Adoni in Deccan. Here is the story. The reason for all this weapons from Adoni can be read below.

The Art and Architecture of Bikaner State by Hermann Goetz, 46-47.

Anup Singh [Maharaja of Bikaner] went back to Deccan, and for the next forty years fought in all the endless campaigns there. In 1681 he was commander of Aurangabad, the provincial capital of Deccan; in the next year he fought the Marathas near Satara, Padan Singh had already in 1674 been serious wounded in an encounter with them in Tapti and had been killed in 1682. In 1686 the raja took part in the last siege and capture of Bijapur, the capital of the Adilshahi kingdom, and was raised to the rank of mansabdar of 5,000. In 1687 he led the decisive assult on the fort of Golconda, the capital of the Qutb Shahi kings, and was made maharaja. He then played a prominent role in the pacification of the Carnatic. In 1689 he took Adoni, the residence of Sidi mas’ud, the former regent and last defender of that part of the Adilshahi state which lay in the south between Hyderabad and Mysore; in 1690 he took Sunker. His last years he spent as governor of Adoni and he died there in 1698.

Jim McDougall · 13th April 2010, 05:16 PM

Welcome to our forums Dmitry, and I must say you've made an impressive entrance here with the presentation of this beautiful chilanum, one of the fascinating and less often discussed weapons in the Indian armoury.

I completely agree with Jens and Dom in the 17th century assessment, well supported with the great detail Jens has added regarding Bikaner, which stands as one of the defining benchmarks in studying the weapons of India.
With many forms of ethnographic weapons, and the fact that they remained in use for such long periods, with the added complication of many revival type versions, it is understandable that many scholars are inclined to stay to the conservative side in dating them. Naturally India is very much a case in point, and adds very much to the intrigue in studying thier weapons.

I would say you have struck a chord here with this beauty! and I really look forward to further discussion on this and the chilanum form itself. The long slender blade is certainly different than examples we are familiar with, and it is interesting to note the structural shape of the hilt to swords of the period.
The recurve and profile of these blades recall of course the pesh kabz of the northern regions, and here we have again established the connections between those areas and the Deccan, clearly affecting the weapon styles.

All best regards,
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 15th April 2010, 10:42 PM

Here is a picture of Anup Singhji - should you be interested.

Jens Nordlunde · 1st May 2010, 03:37 PM

Interesting pieces you show Kurt, please comment on them, age, origin, size and so.
Jens

Kurt · 3rd May 2010, 12:37 PM

Hi Jens,
beginning with No. 1
I suspect Deccan in 1600???
Inserted handle iron with silver.
Heavy blade wootz.
Total length 41 cm.
Blade 28.5 cm.
Weight 648 grams
Regards
Kurt

Kurt · 3rd May 2010, 12:42 PM

Here are two more photos !
Kurt

lionzden · 3rd May 2010, 03:28 PM

closeup images look great, i'd be first in line if you wanted to sell

Jens Nordlunde · 3rd May 2010, 04:05 PM

Hi Kurt,
Great picture, and a very nice chilanum, and thank you for commenting.
I agree with you in your comments, but I doubt that it is from the beginning of 1600. Anyway it is old and very nice.
Jens

13th April 2010, 05:22 AM	#1
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Chillanum Dear Forumites, Allow me to introduce myself: my name is Dmitry and I am from Russia. I am particularly interested in the weapons from India/Iran as well as from their immediate neighbors. I'd like to show you this dagger: IMHO, Chillanum. I would date it to mid/end 18th century and attribute it to South India. I'd very much like to get your opinions. Thanks in advance.

15th April 2010, 10:42 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Here is a picture of Anup Singhji - should you be interested. Attached Images

3rd May 2010, 12:37 PM	#8
Kurt Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 196	Nr. 1 Hi Jens, beginning with No. 1 I suspect Deccan in 1600??? Inserted handle iron with silver. Heavy blade wootz. Total length 41 cm. Blade 28.5 cm. Weight 648 grams Regards Kurt Attached Images

3rd May 2010, 12:42 PM	#9
Kurt Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 196	Pic 2 Here are two more photos ! Kurt Attached Images

13th April 2010, 01:15 PM	#3
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi "mahratt" you 'r welcome India weapons it's not too much my field my comments will be what I found in my doc your "Chilanum" seems more 17th than 18th century, or in middle of both, this was a favorite dagger of the Marathas of West/Central India and, I love the elegant shape of the blade hope so that you will have more things to share with us à + Dom

13th April 2010, 02:21 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Dmitry and welcome to the forum. Yes, you have a chilanum, and I agree with Dom that it is 17th century, but I would find it safer to say Deccan. In the Junagarh Fort in Bikaner, you can find quite a number of chilanums and other weapons, some marked with the Bikaner dot marking – but they origin from Adoni in Deccan. Here is the story. The reason for all this weapons from Adoni can be read below. The Art and Architecture of Bikaner State by Hermann Goetz, 46-47. Anup Singh [Maharaja of Bikaner] went back to Deccan, and for the next forty years fought in all the endless campaigns there. In 1681 he was commander of Aurangabad, the provincial capital of Deccan; in the next year he fought the Marathas near Satara, Padan Singh had already in 1674 been serious wounded in an encounter with them in Tapti and had been killed in 1682. In 1686 the raja took part in the last siege and capture of Bijapur, the capital of the Adilshahi kingdom, and was raised to the rank of mansabdar of 5,000. In 1687 he led the decisive assult on the fort of Golconda, the capital of the Qutb Shahi kings, and was made maharaja. He then played a prominent role in the pacification of the Carnatic. In 1689 he took Adoni, the residence of Sidi mas’ud, the former regent and last defender of that part of the Adilshahi state which lay in the south between Hyderabad and Mysore; in 1690 he took Sunker. His last years he spent as governor of Adoni and he died there in 1698.

13th April 2010, 05:16 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Welcome to our forums Dmitry, and I must say you've made an impressive entrance here with the presentation of this beautiful chilanum, one of the fascinating and less often discussed weapons in the Indian armoury. I completely agree with Jens and Dom in the 17th century assessment, well supported with the great detail Jens has added regarding Bikaner, which stands as one of the defining benchmarks in studying the weapons of India. With many forms of ethnographic weapons, and the fact that they remained in use for such long periods, with the added complication of many revival type versions, it is understandable that many scholars are inclined to stay to the conservative side in dating them. Naturally India is very much a case in point, and adds very much to the intrigue in studying thier weapons. I would say you have struck a chord here with this beauty! and I really look forward to further discussion on this and the chilanum form itself. The long slender blade is certainly different than examples we are familiar with, and it is interesting to note the structural shape of the hilt to swords of the period. The recurve and profile of these blades recall of course the pesh kabz of the northern regions, and here we have again established the connections between those areas and the Deccan, clearly affecting the weapon styles. All best regards, Jim

1st May 2010, 03:37 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Interesting pieces you show Kurt, please comment on them, age, origin, size and so. Jens

3rd May 2010, 03:28 PM	#10
lionzden Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 51	closeup images look great, i'd be first in line if you wanted to sell

3rd May 2010, 04:05 PM	#11
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Kurt, Great picture, and a very nice chilanum, and thank you for commenting. I agree with you in your comments, but I doubt that it is from the beginning of 1600. Anyway it is old and very nice. Jens