Moro hilt, a question of region.

Gavin Nugent · 11th November 2009, 01:52 AM

Good people,

A question of region for some research notes on this fine piece I acquired.
The hilt pictured, can it be noted with confidence that it would be from the Maranao people.

Regards

Gav

Spunjer · 11th November 2009, 08:35 AM

prolly not with confidence, garv, since what we've been working on are theories. Nice complete kampy tho, with scabbard and all. Neat to see it with bells as well.

just out of curiosity, garv, what makes you think this is maranao???

Gavin Nugent · 12th November 2009, 10:23 PM

Hi Spunjer,

I ask due to the reputation and data that comes with this piece.
Lengthy study still needs to be carried out to fully confirm this with accuracy and a number of years of decent still need to be accounted for and confirmed.

Although true origins are not yet fully confirmed, from the data available, it is very plausible given the facts that a Kampalin of this quality (despite not being bone or ivory) with the scabbard shaped and carved as it is, supports it is a sword of Nobility, see notes by Cato, page 58 Moro Swords, paragraph 3 & 4.

What do others out there think to the origins?

Regards

Gav

Gavin Nugent · 13th November 2009, 02:51 AM

I've had a look closer to home (Thanks Jim), Jim referred me to the link to Krieger's work found on this forum. See plate 7.

http://www.vikingsword.com/rila/krieger.html

Can anyone here provide me with larger images of these plates by Krieger? The Kampalins in the images and data that comes the image in plate 7 indicates this piece presented by me is also from the Maranao people.

Gav

Spunjer · 13th November 2009, 03:00 AM

hi gav,

fair enough. i'm with you on the possibility that, without the usual embellishment associated with datu/sultan, this particular kampy coul've been a chief's. on similar note, as per cato's book, there's a picture of tausugs posing, on page 6. the person in the middle, with the barung drawn out, is the sultan's brother, but if you notice , his barung is the type we normally regard as commoners'.
if at all possible, could you please post the data and reputation that came with this kampy? it might shed a light as to the origin of this kampy. as i've posted earlier, we can just guess as to the provenance, but with data and the manner it was acquired, it could speak volumes, and we'd be much closer to the truth.
regards

ariel · 13th November 2009, 04:24 AM

Folks, please enlighten me and straighten me out!

I looked at the reference above ( National Museum, Herbert Krieger's descriptions)) and got totally confused.

Plate 7, ## 2 and
3: what I always thought was a Panabas, is called Talibong

Plate 9, ##2-5:same.
#6: what I thought was a Garab, is called Pira.

Plate 12:
#1: pira is called pira
#6: garab is also called pira

Do I have to re-learn everything I managed to know about Moro weapons?????

Gavin Nugent · 13th November 2009, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Folks, please enlighten me and straighten me out!

Ariel,

Can I suggest a Buddhist retreat and a good Chiropractor

Seriously though...I would not get to put off by old plates, I am certain knowledge has come a long way since 1926 and the most likely explanation as to why that I can think of is there was just not the knowledge base there is today and terms were more generic???

Gav

12th November 2009, 10:23 PM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	My Question. Hi Spunjer, I ask due to the reputation and data that comes with this piece. Lengthy study still needs to be carried out to fully confirm this with accuracy and a number of years of decent still need to be accounted for and confirmed. Although true origins are not yet fully confirmed, from the data available, it is very plausible given the facts that a Kampalin of this quality (despite not being bone or ivory) with the scabbard shaped and carved as it is, supports it is a sword of Nobility, see notes by Cato, page 58 Moro Swords, paragraph 3 & 4. What do others out there think to the origins? Regards Gav Last edited by freebooter; 13th November 2009 at 01:57 AM.

13th November 2009, 02:51 AM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks Jim I've had a look closer to home (Thanks Jim), Jim referred me to the link to Krieger's work found on this forum. See plate 7. http://www.vikingsword.com/rila/krieger.html Can anyone here provide me with larger images of these plates by Krieger? The Kampalins in the images and data that comes the image in plate 7 indicates this piece presented by me is also from the Maranao people. Gav Last edited by freebooter; 13th November 2009 at 05:49 AM.

11th November 2009, 01:52 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Moro hilt, a question of region. Good people, A question of region for some research notes on this fine piece I acquired. The hilt pictured, can it be noted with confidence that it would be from the Maranao people. Regards Gav Attached Images

11th November 2009, 08:35 AM	#2
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	prolly not with confidence, garv, since what we've been working on are theories. Nice complete kampy tho, with scabbard and all. Neat to see it with bells as well. just out of curiosity, garv, what makes you think this is maranao??? Last edited by Spunjer; 11th November 2009 at 02:35 PM.

13th November 2009, 03:00 AM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	hi gav, fair enough. i'm with you on the possibility that, without the usual embellishment associated with datu/sultan, this particular kampy coul've been a chief's. on similar note, as per cato's book, there's a picture of tausugs posing, on page 6. the person in the middle, with the barung drawn out, is the sultan's brother, but if you notice , his barung is the type we normally regard as commoners'. if at all possible, could you please post the data and reputation that came with this kampy? it might shed a light as to the origin of this kampy. as i've posted earlier, we can just guess as to the provenance, but with data and the manner it was acquired, it could speak volumes, and we'd be much closer to the truth. regards

13th November 2009, 04:24 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Folks, please enlighten me and straighten me out! I looked at the reference above ( National Museum, Herbert Krieger's descriptions)) and got totally confused. Plate 7, ## 2 and 3: what I always thought was a Panabas, is called Talibong Plate 9, ##2-5:same. #6: what I thought was a Garab, is called Pira. Plate 12: #1: pira is called pira #6: garab is also called pira Do I have to re-learn everything I managed to know about Moro weapons?????