ANTIQUE 16th C OLD MADURA KERIS ??????

katana · 6th May 2006, 08:43 PM

This was listed on eBay and has now finished. It went for peanuts, was it not genuine ? Or has someone gained a massive bargain? Not my field but was so... so tempted to bid.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Tim Simmons · 6th May 2006, 10:00 PM

I do not want to sound awkward but can you imagine artifacts from the English civil war sold so casually? I know nothing about the much heralded keris but that handle looks way off beam.

katana · 6th May 2006, 10:34 PM

I didn't bid , because, in my opinion, a 16c blade of any type or style, should be revered. If it was to be re-handled / re-scabbard (bad English I know), it should be done with respect and with a sympathetic eye. The plain handle with a lack of skilled craft suggested that the blade had little value. My nagging doubt was the fact that one man's junk ..is another man's treasure, and the blade was genuine, but not appreciated by those who'd 'refurbished' it.

Tim Simmons · 6th May 2006, 10:52 PM

I think the blade is new as well. Some Keris people go in for etching old blades so exposing new metal, which I can understand in the original and active cultural context with ritual cleaning, but once you have an old piece that has crossed those boundaries I feel the monkey see monkey do attitude to the blade is nothing but damage. Duck and cover

.

Henk · 7th May 2006, 11:54 AM

I think the blade has some age. But it is always very difficult to tell the age of a keris blade, but i don't think this is a 16th century maduran blade. I think end 18th 19th century and javanese would come more in the direction. Although there are not more detailed pictures that shows us the dress, I think the scabbard and ukiran are newly made which is not very uncommon for a keris. In the moisty climate in Indonesia the wooden parts rot away under your hands, so redressing kerisblades was and is done frequently. Also for this keris it is done in a proper way. Scabbard and ukiran are javanese. The ukiran has a bird or parrot head on top. You also see javanese ukirans carved with snakes or snakeheads.

I think the buyer bought a very nice keris.

katana · 7th May 2006, 01:00 PM

Thanks for the reply Henk. In your opinion, was the price paid for the Keris a cheap price or was it around its market value?

Mark · 7th May 2006, 06:58 PM

The forum policy is to not discuss values/prices on the open boards. Sometimes a comment such as "what a steal!" or "way over-priced!" does slip by, but we prefer that more specific opinions on value not be posted.

However, I expect that your question can, and will, be answered via e-mail or PM. Anyone should feel free to do so.

Mark

Henk · 7th May 2006, 09:54 PM

I don't want to get suspended, so I won't answer this question in public.

Mark is completely right. Rule number one: discuss the weapons not the value.

Katana, I will sent you a PM.

6th May 2006, 08:43 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	ANTIQUE 16th C OLD MADURA KERIS ?????? This was listed on eBay and has now finished. It went for peanuts, was it not genuine ? Or has someone gained a massive bargain? Not my field but was so... so tempted to bid. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

6th May 2006, 10:00 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I do not want to sound awkward but can you imagine artifacts from the English civil war sold so casually? I know nothing about the much heralded keris but that handle looks way off beam.

6th May 2006, 10:34 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	I didn't bid , because, in my opinion, a 16c blade of any type or style, should be revered. If it was to be re-handled / re-scabbard (bad English I know), it should be done with respect and with a sympathetic eye. The plain handle with a lack of skilled craft suggested that the blade had little value. My nagging doubt was the fact that one man's junk ..is another man's treasure, and the blade was genuine, but not appreciated by those who'd 'refurbished' it.

6th May 2006, 10:52 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I think the blade is new as well. Some Keris people go in for etching old blades so exposing new metal, which I can understand in the original and active cultural context with ritual cleaning, but once you have an old piece that has crossed those boundaries I feel the monkey see monkey do attitude to the blade is nothing but damage. Duck and cover .

7th May 2006, 11:54 AM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I think the blade has some age. But it is always very difficult to tell the age of a keris blade, but i don't think this is a 16th century maduran blade. I think end 18th 19th century and javanese would come more in the direction. Although there are not more detailed pictures that shows us the dress, I think the scabbard and ukiran are newly made which is not very uncommon for a keris. In the moisty climate in Indonesia the wooden parts rot away under your hands, so redressing kerisblades was and is done frequently. Also for this keris it is done in a proper way. Scabbard and ukiran are javanese. The ukiran has a bird or parrot head on top. You also see javanese ukirans carved with snakes or snakeheads. I think the buyer bought a very nice keris.

7th May 2006, 01:00 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thanks for the reply Henk. In your opinion, was the price paid for the Keris a cheap price or was it around its market value?

7th May 2006, 06:58 PM	#7
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	The forum policy is to not discuss values/prices on the open boards. Sometimes a comment such as "what a steal!" or "way over-priced!" does slip by, but we prefer that more specific opinions on value not be posted. However, I expect that your question can, and will, be answered via e-mail or PM. Anyone should feel free to do so. Mark

7th May 2006, 09:54 PM	#8
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I don't want to get suspended, so I won't answer this question in public. Mark is completely right. Rule number one: discuss the weapons not the value. Katana, I will sent you a PM.