Indo persian ? Arabic curved 'working' knife

katana · 12th February 2007, 02:30 PM

This is a strange knife the spine on this curved blade is 'thick' to its tip (no distal taper) . The edge is on the inside of the curved blade. The hilt is not embellished and suggests a 'working use'. If a weapon ....the only use I can see is that it could be used to 'slit' the throat of an unsuspecting victim (or animal) or as a 'mercy killer' in the aftermath of battle. Not 'ornate enough' to be a ritual/ceremonial ....surely.

Any information or comments would be appreciated....I have not seen this style of knife before

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...7089&rd=1&rd=1

Jens Nordlunde · 12th February 2007, 03:00 PM

Hi Katana,

To me it looks as if it is an Indian type of Bank, see Stone page 93 fig. 120. I will see if I can find what the Wallace catalogue says. In the Wallace catalogue i only found one #2205, but there could be others. See also Egerton #480-1 and #581, note.

katana · 13th February 2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Katana,

To me it looks as if it is an Indian type of Bank, see Stone page 93 fig. 120. I will see if I can find what the Wallace catalogue says. In the Wallace catalogue i only found one #2205, but there could be others. See also Egerton #480-1 and #581, note.

Thanks Jens, Stone does not state what a 'Bank' is used for .....any ideas ?
I look forward to any information you can provide (I do not have Egerton as a referance

)

Jens Nordlunde · 13th February 2007, 04:57 PM

Hi Katana,

Lord Egerton of Tatton, Indian and Oriental Armour, reprint 1968.
In the chapter about the Mahrattas he writes.
#480. Dagger; Bank; Sickel-shaped; polished steel blade, of semicircular outline, mounted on a straight hilt of dark wood, studded with floriated silver bosses; crimson velvet sheath, tipped with silver. Indore.

#481. ‘Dagger; Bank; crescent-shaped; curved of burnished steel; hilt of dark wood, continuing the curve of the blade, and together forming an exactly semicircular outline. Kolapoer.

In the chapter about Mahomedan Arms of the Deccan and Mysore he writes.
#581, notes.
Bank, curved dagger. Watered steel blade, figured copper handle and finger guard. Worn by common people among the Mogulyes and the people of the Rajwar cast throughout India. Tower. 431, Additional Collection.

Bank. Good steel blade; iron handle ornamented with brass. Mysore. Time of Tippoo.

Bank. Common steel blade, iron handle. Carnatic [?] Worn chiefly by irregular infantry.

Lets move on to Islamic Arms and Armour of Muslim India by Dr. Syed Zafar Haider, Lahore. 1991.
On page 209 he describes the weapon like this. ‘The word in Hindi means a curvation or a bend, therefore the ´name of this dagger comes from its curved shape. It was sickle shaped with a straight handle of copper, wood or ivory, riveted to the flat tang. It was worn by Mughals and people from the Rajwar cast. Scabbards were made of wood, covered by Keemkhab and mounted with silver gilt.
The picture is from Dr. Haider’s book.

I am not sure what it was used for, but when Dr. Haider shows it in his book i think we can take it for granded that it was a weapon.

Jens

PS. MAWAR- RAJWAR GULLY:- This pass connects Rajwar and Mawar areas

Emanuel · 13th February 2007, 05:12 PM

Hi David and Jens,

I was also looking at this knife, and I found it very weird. The thing about the bank is that it has a reinforced spine to help in cutting. This strange knife has a mid-rib and is double-edged, suggesting that it was used for stabbing, instead of cutting/slashing. Couldn't it just be a khanjar variant? Of course the handle makes stabbing like a khanjar awckward if not impossible...could it have been a replacement or a repair put the wrong way?

Regards,
Emanuel

katana · 13th February 2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Hi David and Jens,

This strange knife has a mid-rib and is double-edged, suggesting that it was used for stabbing, instead of cutting/slashing. Couldn't it just be a khanjar variant? Of course the handle makes stabbing like a khanjar awckward if not impossible...could it have been a replacement or a repair put the wrong way?

Regards,
Emanuel

Hi Emanuel,
I believe there is only one cutting edge....the 'inner' ....the outer edge has no chamfer of any kind....it is 'flat'. The only way to use this as a weapon would be to cut using the 'inner' blade. There isn't a point to speak of...that could be used for 'stabbing'. The extra photos I received from the seller suggests that the blade was of good quality.

Hi Jens, thankyou for the additional information.....appreciated

David

12th February 2007, 02:30 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Indo persian ? Arabic curved 'working' knife This is a strange knife the spine on this curved blade is 'thick' to its tip (no distal taper) . The edge is on the inside of the curved blade. The hilt is not embellished and suggests a 'working use'. If a weapon ....the only use I can see is that it could be used to 'slit' the throat of an unsuspecting victim (or animal) or as a 'mercy killer' in the aftermath of battle. Not 'ornate enough' to be a ritual/ceremonial ....surely. Any information or comments would be appreciated....I have not seen this style of knife before http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...7089&rd=1&rd=1 Attached Images Last edited by katana; 12th February 2007 at 05:06 PM.

12th February 2007, 03:00 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Katana, To me it looks as if it is an Indian type of Bank, see Stone page 93 fig. 120. I will see if I can find what the Wallace catalogue says. In the Wallace catalogue i only found one #2205, but there could be others. See also Egerton #480-1 and #581, note. Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 12th February 2007 at 03:57 PM.

13th February 2007, 04:57 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Katana, Lord Egerton of Tatton, Indian and Oriental Armour, reprint 1968. In the chapter about the Mahrattas he writes. #480. Dagger; Bank; Sickel-shaped; polished steel blade, of semicircular outline, mounted on a straight hilt of dark wood, studded with floriated silver bosses; crimson velvet sheath, tipped with silver. Indore. #481. ‘Dagger; Bank; crescent-shaped; curved of burnished steel; hilt of dark wood, continuing the curve of the blade, and together forming an exactly semicircular outline. Kolapoer. In the chapter about Mahomedan Arms of the Deccan and Mysore he writes. #581, notes. Bank, curved dagger. Watered steel blade, figured copper handle and finger guard. Worn by common people among the Mogulyes and the people of the Rajwar cast throughout India. Tower. 431, Additional Collection. Bank. Good steel blade; iron handle ornamented with brass. Mysore. Time of Tippoo. Bank. Common steel blade, iron handle. Carnatic [?] Worn chiefly by irregular infantry. Lets move on to Islamic Arms and Armour of Muslim India by Dr. Syed Zafar Haider, Lahore. 1991. On page 209 he describes the weapon like this. ‘The word in Hindi means a curvation or a bend, therefore the ´name of this dagger comes from its curved shape. It was sickle shaped with a straight handle of copper, wood or ivory, riveted to the flat tang. It was worn by Mughals and people from the Rajwar cast. Scabbards were made of wood, covered by Keemkhab and mounted with silver gilt. The picture is from Dr. Haider’s book. I am not sure what it was used for, but when Dr. Haider shows it in his book i think we can take it for granded that it was a weapon. Jens PS. MAWAR- RAJWAR GULLY:- This pass connects Rajwar and Mawar areas Attached Images Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 13th February 2007 at 05:17 PM.

13th February 2007, 05:12 PM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi David and Jens, I was also looking at this knife, and I found it very weird. The thing about the bank is that it has a reinforced spine to help in cutting. This strange knife has a mid-rib and is double-edged, suggesting that it was used for stabbing, instead of cutting/slashing. Couldn't it just be a khanjar variant? Of course the handle makes stabbing like a khanjar awckward if not impossible...could it have been a replacement or a repair put the wrong way? Regards, Emanuel