What pamor is this?

[Neo]

What do you think is the name of the pamor of this keris? It kinda looks like Wiji Timun, but then it has some sort of "wings" surounding the ellipses.

[asian-keris]

I think this is Bali origine Blade

[David]

Originally Posted by asian-keris

I think this is Bali origine Blade

I don't think so Asian. What makes you say so?
And it looks like a basic Wos Wutah to me, but maybe someone else knows differently.

[Jean]

To me it looks to be a Javanese blade with dapur Pasopati.
Regarding the style of pamor, it is impossible to guess it accurately from the picture, we need more detailed ones to see the details, especially if the pamorless areas in the median part of the blade are due to wear or are original.
Best regards

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by asian-keris

I think this is Bali origine Blade

I must say that I'm very impressed by your opiinion Asian keris.
I agree this tipe of pamor s belong to bali kerises.
the method of pamor appliace in bali keris is quite thick and only contains of a few layers of pamor.
I'm very pleased you can recognize this pamor. only a few people would directly recognize it.

[David]

Originally Posted by ferrylaki

I must say that I'm very impressed by your opiinion Asian keris.
I agree this tipe of pamor s belong to bali kerises.
the method of pamor appliace in bali keris is quite thick and only contains of a few layers of pamor.
I'm very pleased you can recognize this pamor. only a few people would directly recognize it.

Interesting Ferrylaki. To me there is almost nothing in the dhapur of this keris that would indicate it's origin as Balinese. It wouldn't be the first time i have been wrong of course, but if you could post some other provenanced Balinese examples that have ricikan that are executed in this manner i would love to see them. As for the pamor, i am impressed by your skills to be able to determine that much based on this one single overall image. Frankly i have based my opinion of origin more on the dhapur.

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by David

Interesting Ferrylaki. To me there is almost nothing in the dhapur of this keris that would indicate it's origin as Balinese. It wouldn't be the first time i have been wrong of course, but if you could post some other provenanced Balinese examples that have ricikan that are executed in this manner i would love to see them. As for the pamor, i am impressed by your skills to be able to determine that much based on this one single overall image. Frankly i have based my opinion of origin more on the dhapur.

this keris is not the example of young bali. this is an old bali keris.
I found that bali keris could be defided in two. the old one (circa majapahit) and the young ( the same periode with mataram and nomnoman).

the both has a quite different in size and dhapur. the old one usually smaller.
but...the both consistenly apply the same methode of making its pamor.
you can find in easily on pamor melumah. every layr is so thick and it would only a few pamor layers.

I hope you can understand my explanation.

and David, have you ever consider that this keris has already been modified from its original ?

[Gustav]

Bali is an interesting thought.

Against it would speek the falling and quite narrow Gandhik. The majority of Bali kerisses don't have Pamor Gonjo.

If there is a bigger and somewhat rounded Bawang Sebungkul, this keris couldn't be Bali or very old. Unfortunately from this picture absolutely nothing could be said about the quality, even the shape of the features of Ricikan.

[David]

Originally Posted by ferrylaki

this keris is not the example of young bali. this is an old bali keris.
I found that bali keris could be defided in two. the old one (circa majapahit) and the young ( the same periode with mataram and nomnoman).

the both has a quite different in size and dhapur. the old one usually smaller.
but...the both consistenly apply the same methode of making its pamor.
you can find in easily on pamor melumah. every layr is so thick and it would only a few pamor layers.

I hope you can understand my explanation.

and David, have you ever consider that this keris has already been modified from its original ?

I understand your explanation, i just don't see how you can be making these observations based upon this one overall photograph.
I do agree that with Mojopahit era Bali keris we would be likely to find more similarities between Javanese and Bali keris, but i am afraid that i do not have your skills to be able to determine that this particular keris is as old as that based on this one photo.

[asian-keris]

Originally Posted by asian-keris

I think this is Bali origine Blade

Hi dear colector’s
I have found some time to do some research.
Found similarity in the book from karsten Jensen (1998) pg 136
And one in keris di Lombok from Djelenga (2000) pg 168
These are carita dapur one’s but have the same candik and ada-ada(rim)
This blade has been polished (typical bali)
counter is the pamor used for the ganja . On bali, ganja’s are black (or small stripes)
Pamor at the base beras wutah and stretched to the tip.
Still confused Or is this an recent mixture

[David]

Originally Posted by asian-keris

Hi dear colector’s
I have found some time to do some research.
Found similarity in the book from karsten Jensen (1998) pg 136
And one in keris di Lombok from Djelenga (2000) pg 168
These are carita dapur one’s but have the same candik and ada-ada(rim)
This blade has been polished (typical bali)
counter is the pamor used for the ganja . On bali, ganja’s are black (or small stripes)
Pamor at the base beras wutah and stretched to the tip.
Still confused Or is this an recent mixture

Sorry Asian, i don't have any of these resource books. Can you find any examples to post here?
Frankly i don't think this is a recent mixture of anything. It looks like a classic Javanese dhapur executed in the usual manner. Of course, if i had it in my hand i might have some different thoughts on it. The pamor is impossible to discern absolutely from this one image. But i don't have Ferry's magic eye. Likewise the thinness or thickness of the blade or the depth of the sogokan is impossible to tell from this evenly lit over top viewpoint. But as a general overview it seems to present itself as a Javanese Pasopati dhapur with Wos Wutah pamor blade to me.