Ethiopian alternative straight swords

Iain · 11th March 2012, 10:13 PM

I was digging around in my image archives today and came across a couple odd images that I was hoping I could learn more about.

The first is a kaskara, but was labeled as Ethiopian. I know of another kaskara with this odd pommel configuration, I believe the MET has it.

The second image is from one of the older churches in Ethiopia I think and is supposedly a king's sword.

Any further examples of this sort of thing - i.e. not the more typical horn hilts?

Jim McDougall · 12th March 2012, 06:49 AM

Hi Iain,
These strange pommel configurations, according to personal communications some years ago with archaeologist/curator Timothy Kendall, and an example in his collection with twin, flattened spheres similar to this arrangement, these were used by the mounted nobility in Darfur.
Apparantly these spheres often contained beans or pebbles and were used presumably to rattle over thier heads in victory celebrations or in many cases to terrify captives.
Ref: "History and Antiquities of Darfur" H.C.Balfour Paul, Sudan Antiquities Pamphlet, 1955.
Mr. Kendall is an archaeologist active in Egyptian and Sudanese sites, and his collection was on tour in Austria at the time I spoke with him, around ten years ago.
It would seem this example vestigially recalls these twin pommels.

Not sure on the sword in the second photo, but it seems a number of otherwise relatively inconsequential sword types ended up as regalia swords in Abyssinia during diplomatic contacts late 19th century. I have an article around here somewhere on one of these kinds of swords presented to King Theodore around that time.

All the best,
Jim

Iain · 12th March 2012, 10:53 AM

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the details on the strange kaskara pommels.

The second sword is more interesting to me as I honestly can't place from an outside source. Strange form.

Cheers,

Iain

Jim McDougall · 12th March 2012, 08:10 PM

I agree Iain, the blade seems to favor the kaskara blades we were looking at which were Clauberg type from 1870s or so with that central ellipse fuller, but hard to say for sure. The hilt with those apertures at the crossguard ends is curious as well, and of course reminds me of something I cant place, it almost looks like a bayonet kind of hilt.

All the best,
Jim

TVV · 12th March 2012, 09:08 PM

Jim and Iain,
To me the hilt of the Ethiopian regalia sword looks very much like the hilt of a sword sold through Hermann Historica, pictures saved in this thread:

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ight=historica

There, it was described as a late medieval sword from Egypt. I agree with Jim that the single fullered blade looks very much like a Solingen made blade from the mid 19th century, but the hilt may be quite older. Or, the "mameluke" sword may be from a later period.

Regards,
Teodor

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 13th March 2012, 08:33 AM

Salaams Iain ~ I am interested in the influence if any of Schiavona blades on African and Red Sea regional weapons. The double edge style are quite similar.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 22nd March 2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

I was digging around in my image archives today and came across a couple odd images that I was hoping I could learn more about.

The first is a kaskara, but was labeled as Ethiopian. I know of another kaskara with this odd pommel configuration, I believe the MET has it.

The second image is from one of the older churches in Ethiopia I think and is supposedly a king's sword.

Any further examples of this sort of thing - i.e. not the more typical horn hilts?

Salaams Iain~ I have been looking at this thread since it arrived and have to say I consider this one of the most important possibilities (the Mamluke link etc) I have yet encountered here. The connotations are legion including the rehilting of these blades onto Omani longhilts, fusion with Saudia and Yemeni hilts and so on. Intriguing also are the fancy decorations of moons etc on the other blade ~Luckhouse and Gunter plus other German makers have a hand in some of these as well as possible local copies. I see some with woolf marks in Muscat. On passing, I am reviewing the blade scene for Schiavona rehilts in Red Sea variants...

Anyway this thread is looking good and I hope it develops. Thanks.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

stephen wood · 21st April 2012, 10:49 PM

...the straight-bladed kaskara-like swords were associated with the Coptic priesthood which was administered from Alexandria until 1959.

Iain · 22nd April 2012, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephen wood

...the straight-bladed kaskara-like swords were associated with the Coptic priesthood which was administered from Alexandria until 1959.

Interesting, I assume you are referring to the type show in the second image at the start of this thread. A reference would be good on this apparently known association...

Iain · 4th November 2012, 07:14 PM

Hi Stephen, I just wanted to bump this up again in case we could get more info on the connection with the coptic priesthood you mentioned?

Jim McDougall · 4th November 2012, 10:48 PM

Now thats patience Iain!!!! 7 months

Im glad you brought this up again though, it would indeed be interesting to discover how these 'straight' kaskara like swords are used in the Coptic Church in thier ceremonial perspective. I am curious if there are curved types as well and if also included in such context.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 8th November 2012, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephen wood

...the straight-bladed kaskara-like swords were associated with the Coptic priesthood which was administered from Alexandria until 1959.

Salaams stephen wood ~ This is interesting if it is in fact the case ~ Perhaps you can elaborate ?

I was looking at the subject and discovered that The Church is ecumenical in outlook, and was a founder member of the World Council of Churches in 1948. The word 'Copt' comes from the Greek word 'Aigyptos', meaning Egyptian.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Kubur · 27th October 2016, 10:25 PM

Hi Iain,

I have to resuscitate this old thread.
I asked recently some informations about a tabouka and a blade.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21988
Because I had something in mind.
I think your first sword is Ethiopian and the museum was right (this time).
I will post some documents tomorrow to prove it.
When I say Ethiopian I mean found in Ethiopia and used by Ethiopians,
The sword was probably captured from a battle between Sudanese and Ethiopians and refitted with a new pommel later by Ethiopians.

Best,
Kubur

Kubur · 28th October 2016, 08:21 AM

In fact your sword is not from the MET.
The kaskara from the MET is here.
Your drawing comes from an old French traveller book, the author drawns and collected objects from Ethiopia, objects used by Ethiopians.
Theophile Lefebvre, Voyage en Abyssinie, 1845.
Best,
Kubur

11th March 2012, 10:13 PM	#1
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Ethiopian alternative straight swords I was digging around in my image archives today and came across a couple odd images that I was hoping I could learn more about. The first is a kaskara, but was labeled as Ethiopian. I know of another kaskara with this odd pommel configuration, I believe the MET has it. The second image is from one of the older churches in Ethiopia I think and is supposedly a king's sword. Any further examples of this sort of thing - i.e. not the more typical horn hilts? Attached Images

28th October 2016, 08:21 AM	#14
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	In fact your sword is not from the MET. The kaskara from the MET is here. Your drawing comes from an old French traveller book, the author drawns and collected objects from Ethiopia, objects used by Ethiopians. Theophile Lefebvre, Voyage en Abyssinie, 1845. Best, Kubur Attached Images

12th March 2012, 06:49 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	Hi Iain, These strange pommel configurations, according to personal communications some years ago with archaeologist/curator Timothy Kendall, and an example in his collection with twin, flattened spheres similar to this arrangement, these were used by the mounted nobility in Darfur. Apparantly these spheres often contained beans or pebbles and were used presumably to rattle over thier heads in victory celebrations or in many cases to terrify captives. Ref: "History and Antiquities of Darfur" H.C.Balfour Paul, Sudan Antiquities Pamphlet, 1955. Mr. Kendall is an archaeologist active in Egyptian and Sudanese sites, and his collection was on tour in Austria at the time I spoke with him, around ten years ago. It would seem this example vestigially recalls these twin pommels. Not sure on the sword in the second photo, but it seems a number of otherwise relatively inconsequential sword types ended up as regalia swords in Abyssinia during diplomatic contacts late 19th century. I have an article around here somewhere on one of these kinds of swords presented to King Theodore around that time. All the best, Jim

12th March 2012, 10:53 AM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Hi Jim, Thanks for the details on the strange kaskara pommels. The second sword is more interesting to me as I honestly can't place from an outside source. Strange form. Cheers, Iain

12th March 2012, 08:10 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	I agree Iain, the blade seems to favor the kaskara blades we were looking at which were Clauberg type from 1870s or so with that central ellipse fuller, but hard to say for sure. The hilt with those apertures at the crossguard ends is curious as well, and of course reminds me of something I cant place, it almost looks like a bayonet kind of hilt. All the best, Jim

12th March 2012, 09:08 PM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Jim and Iain, To me the hilt of the Ethiopian regalia sword looks very much like the hilt of a sword sold through Hermann Historica, pictures saved in this thread: http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ight=historica There, it was described as a late medieval sword from Egypt. I agree with Jim that the single fullered blade looks very much like a Solingen made blade from the mid 19th century, but the hilt may be quite older. Or, the "mameluke" sword may be from a later period. Regards, Teodor

13th March 2012, 08:33 AM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Iain ~ I am interested in the influence if any of Schiavona blades on African and Red Sea regional weapons. The double edge style are quite similar. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi

21st April 2012, 10:49 PM	#8
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...the straight-bladed kaskara-like swords were associated with the Coptic priesthood which was administered from Alexandria until 1959.

4th November 2012, 07:14 PM	#10
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Hi Stephen, I just wanted to bump this up again in case we could get more info on the connection with the coptic priesthood you mentioned?

4th November 2012, 10:48 PM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	Now thats patience Iain!!!! 7 months Im glad you brought this up again though, it would indeed be interesting to discover how these 'straight' kaskara like swords are used in the Coptic Church in thier ceremonial perspective. I am curious if there are curved types as well and if also included in such context.

27th October 2016, 10:25 PM	#13
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Iain, I have to resuscitate this old thread. I asked recently some informations about a tabouka and a blade. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21988 Because I had something in mind. I think your first sword is Ethiopian and the museum was right (this time). I will post some documents tomorrow to prove it. When I say Ethiopian I mean found in Ethiopia and used by Ethiopians, The sword was probably captured from a battle between Sudanese and Ethiopians and refitted with a new pommel later by Ethiopians. Best, Kubur