Basket hilt Sword for discussion

SwordLover79 · 24th November 2023, 06:17 PM

Gentlemen: here are photos of another sword included in the collection I acquired recently. As usual, I am hopeful of learning anything I can regarding the location and date of manufacture. I cannot find a maker's mark on the hilt. The 33 inch double-fullered blade is 1 1/2 inches wide, with "Solingen" inside each fuller, and a mark deeply struck below the fullers on one side of the blade. The hilt is 7 inches long and 6 inches wide. The 4 1/2 inch grip is wrapped with fishskin, with brass wire and two brass turkheads. Thanks in advance!

Jim McDougall · 25th November 2023, 04:31 AM

I cannot believe these basket hilts you have acquired! This one is amazing, and everything about it seems to be in the manner of John Simpson #2 of Glasgow who was admitted Freeman of Hammermen of Glasgow in 1711. He died in 1749 (Whitelaw, 1934, p.307) .
On the underside of the guard, if this hilt is marked it would be I.S.
G

It might not be signed , but it seems to follow hilts by him, so perhaps the shop .

Similar seen in Wallace (1970, "Scottish Swords and Dirks" #32. ) as 1730-40.

In "Swords and the Sorrows" (1996), p.32, 1:18 is strikingly similar and carried at Sheriffmuir (1715) and Prestonpans (1745) and of course Jacobite.

The pierced 'heart' (triangles) and dot configurations are in same manner.

The blade is of course far earlier than the first quarter 18th of the hilt.
Solingen in the fuller is one of many applications of markings on these earlier blades, and typically there will not be a date, or for that matter a maker name.
The marking is a Solingen version of the crescent moon mark often used on Spanish blades in 16th into 17th c. along with makers punzone, believed to indicate the espadero del Rey, maker to the king. These seem to have been sometimes added to blades as of course quality suggestion or similar imbuement.

I have a 'mortuary' which dates c. 1640s possibly Hounslow, or so suggested, having a Solingen ANDREA FERARA blade with a mark very similar, which suggests your blade is likely around mid 17th c.

The import of German blades is of course well known, with the ANDREA FERARA blades most ubiquitous in Scottish context. Apparently there was a 17th c. shipwreck off the Scottish coast which when found yielded over two thousand blades.

Remarkable example!!!!!

Jim McDougall · 28th November 2023, 04:56 PM

Thanks for the opportunity to see this nice basket hilt.

Battara · 2nd December 2023, 03:49 AM

I love this!

Jim McDougall · 4th December 2023, 08:11 AM

Me too! especially the resounding response!

Norman McCormick · 4th December 2023, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Me too! especially the resounding response!

Hi,
I totally agree it is a great sword but once an extract from the McDougallpedia

has been posted there's not a lot left to say. As always Jim you are a veritable mine of info

My Regards,
Norman.

jezcott · 22nd July 2024, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwordLover79

Gentlemen: here are photos of another sword included in the collection I acquired recently. As usual, I am hopeful of learning anything I can regarding the location and date of manufacture. I cannot find a maker's mark on the hilt. The 33 inch double-fullered blade is 1 1/2 inches wide, with "Solingen" inside each fuller, and a mark deeply struck below the fullers on one side of the blade. The hilt is 7 inches long and 6 inches wide. The 4 1/2 inch grip is wrapped with fishskin, with brass wire and two brass turkheads. Thanks in advance!

Only just come across this, but what a gorgeous example of an early Glasgow basket-hilt. In superb condition. Lucky fella

Question for the forum: Is the Classic Thread on basket-hilts active or now archived? It is a superb resource and I have learned a good deal from it as well as enjoying the images. I have become somewhat addicted to 18thC basket-hilts and would like to share some of my examples with questions and comments - so start new threads or use the Classic Thread?

Cheers
Jerry

fernando · 22nd July 2024, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jezcott

... Question for the forum: Is the Classic Thread on basket-hilts active or now archived? It is a superb resource and I have learned a good deal from it as well as enjoying the images. I have become somewhat addicted to 18thC basket-hilts and would like to share some of my examples with questions and comments - so start new threads or use the Classic Thread?...

Jerry, you may post on the Classic Thread but i am afraid this resource is a bit rusty. Perhaps if you open new threads on your swords for discussion with the members is a better idea.

toaster5sqn · 22nd July 2024, 11:40 PM

I see in Swordlover79's Sinclair sabre a clear example of the transition from the finger ring of the side sword to the 2 "sword catcher" bars of the later basket hilts. This theory that those bars were in fact just the remains of the earlier feature (much as vestigial finger rings remained on small swords) has long been one of the main contenders for an explanation and such a clear transition should go a long way to settling the debate.

Robert

24th November 2023, 06:17 PM	#1
SwordLover79 Member Join Date: Jun 2022 Location: San Diego Posts: 56	Basket hilt Sword for discussion Gentlemen: here are photos of another sword included in the collection I acquired recently. As usual, I am hopeful of learning anything I can regarding the location and date of manufacture. I cannot find a maker's mark on the hilt. The 33 inch double-fullered blade is 1 1/2 inches wide, with "Solingen" inside each fuller, and a mark deeply struck below the fullers on one side of the blade. The hilt is 7 inches long and 6 inches wide. The 4 1/2 inch grip is wrapped with fishskin, with brass wire and two brass turkheads. Thanks in advance! Attached Images

25th November 2023, 04:31 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,954	I cannot believe these basket hilts you have acquired! This one is amazing, and everything about it seems to be in the manner of John Simpson #2 of Glasgow who was admitted Freeman of Hammermen of Glasgow in 1711. He died in 1749 (Whitelaw, 1934, p.307) . On the underside of the guard, if this hilt is marked it would be I.S. G It might not be signed , but it seems to follow hilts by him, so perhaps the shop . Similar seen in Wallace (1970, "Scottish Swords and Dirks" #32. ) as 1730-40. In "Swords and the Sorrows" (1996), p.32, 1:18 is strikingly similar and carried at Sheriffmuir (1715) and Prestonpans (1745) and of course Jacobite. The pierced 'heart' (triangles) and dot configurations are in same manner. The blade is of course far earlier than the first quarter 18th of the hilt. Solingen in the fuller is one of many applications of markings on these earlier blades, and typically there will not be a date, or for that matter a maker name. The marking is a Solingen version of the crescent moon mark often used on Spanish blades in 16th into 17th c. along with makers punzone, believed to indicate the espadero del Rey, maker to the king. These seem to have been sometimes added to blades as of course quality suggestion or similar imbuement. I have a 'mortuary' which dates c. 1640s possibly Hounslow, or so suggested, having a Solingen ANDREA FERARA blade with a mark very similar, which suggests your blade is likely around mid 17th c. The import of German blades is of course well known, with the ANDREA FERARA blades most ubiquitous in Scottish context. Apparently there was a 17th c. shipwreck off the Scottish coast which when found yielded over two thousand blades. Remarkable example!!!!! Attached Images

28th November 2023, 04:56 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,954	Thanks for the opportunity to see this nice basket hilt.

2nd December 2023, 03:49 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I love this!

4th December 2023, 08:11 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,954	Me too! especially the resounding response!

22nd July 2024, 11:40 PM	#9
toaster5sqn Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 72	I see in Swordlover79's Sinclair sabre a clear example of the transition from the finger ring of the side sword to the 2 "sword catcher" bars of the later basket hilts. This theory that those bars were in fact just the remains of the earlier feature (much as vestigial finger rings remained on small swords) has long been one of the main contenders for an explanation and such a clear transition should go a long way to settling the debate. Robert