Persian date opinion sought on khanjar

rand · 24th September 2008, 11:55 PM

Would appreciate you opinion of translation of date on the hilt of this Persian khanjar. Have a knowledgable opinion of 1200, but wonder about the possibilty of 1260,1206,1210 or 1201 and would value your opinions. The curved detail under the flower to the right of the two is what I ponder because it is the only place where the stem does not attach at the middle of the flower which makes me wonder if it is instead a number.

Thanks,

rand

Atlantia · 25th September 2008, 02:37 AM

WOW!

If there were a smilie for 'weeping with envy' I'd insert it here.

Dom · 25th September 2008, 03:47 AM

it's seems to me, 1365

rand · 25th September 2008, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

it's seems to me, 1365

Hi Dom,

Thanks for your opinion.
Is interesting to me that you also view the possibility of a six being read in the date....

Thanks,

rand

rand · 25th September 2008, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

WOW!

If there were a smilie for 'weeping with envy' I'd insert it here.

The influence from Europe on Persian art is very evident, especially in the 18-19th century, even though the figures have wings they may represent Adam and Eve. Below is the other side of the handle and wonder if it is Adam under the tree of life. The bird in the tree is very popular motif in Persian art, as are the roses.

One thing that strikes me is the beard and how similar the image is to viking art. The balance of multiples of two is very commen on Persian art, its one of the clues that helps differentiate from Ottomans where multiples of three are more commen. Is simply a beautiful, well designed and expertly crafted example of Persian carved Ivory.

Would love to know the symbolism of the moustache, any ideas?

rand

Atlantia · 25th September 2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand

The influence from Europe on Persian art is very evident, especially in the 18-19th century, even though the figures have wings they may represent Adam and Eve. Below is the other side of the handle and wonder if it is Adam under the tree of life. The bird in the tree is very popular motif in Persian art, as are the roses.

One thing that strikes me is the beard and how similar the image is to viking art. The balance of multiples of two is very commen on Persian art, its one of the clues that helps differentiate from Ottomans where multiples of three are more commen. Is simply a beautiful, well designed and expertly crafted example of Persian carved Ivory.

Would love to know the symbolism of the moustache, any ideas?

rand

Hi Rand

Its simply breathtaking and heartbreakingly beautiful, it certainly reminds me of European ivovy carving of the time (although erotic angels might have earned an unexpected visit from the Inquisition). I think I've got a couple of books that might show some European examples of similar date, I'll have a look for you and come back with anything I find.

Regards
Gene
May we see the whole piece?

rand · 26th September 2008, 12:30 AM

HI Gene,

Here is the entire dagger

If the Persian date of 1200 holds up that is translated into the AD date by subtracting 3%

1200
- 36 (3% of 1200))
1164

then adding 622

1164
+ 622
1786 (possible date)

rand

Atlantia · 26th September 2008, 12:50 AM

Its beautiful from tip to toe isn't it?
The chap with the big moustache is very interesting. I can't help but think of the Green Man - 'jack in the green' images often carved into english churchs especially rood screens. 'jack' has a 'moustache' which can be anything from a very long curling moustache to actual leaves and foliage sprouting from his nostrils. The image is also often framed by other swirling leaf-like scrolls. The image on your dagger hilt really brings these to mind.

24th September 2008, 11:55 PM	#1
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Persian date opinion sought on khanjar Would appreciate you opinion of translation of date on the hilt of this Persian khanjar. Have a knowledgable opinion of 1200, but wonder about the possibilty of 1260,1206,1210 or 1201 and would value your opinions. The curved detail under the flower to the right of the two is what I ponder because it is the only place where the stem does not attach at the middle of the flower which makes me wonder if it is instead a number. Thanks, rand Attached Images

26th September 2008, 12:30 AM	#7
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Whole Piece HI Gene, Here is the entire dagger If the Persian date of 1200 holds up that is translated into the AD date by subtracting 3% 1200 - 36 (3% of 1200)) 1164 then adding 622 1164 + 622 1786 (possible date) rand Attached Images Last edited by rand; 26th September 2008 at 12:50 AM.

25th September 2008, 02:37 AM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	WOW! If there were a smilie for 'weeping with envy' I'd insert it here.

25th September 2008, 03:47 AM	#3
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	it's seems to me, 1365

26th September 2008, 12:50 AM	#8
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Its beautiful from tip to toe isn't it? The chap with the big moustache is very interesting. I can't help but think of the Green Man - 'jack in the green' images often carved into english churchs especially rood screens. 'jack' has a 'moustache' which can be anything from a very long curling moustache to actual leaves and foliage sprouting from his nostrils. The image is also often framed by other swirling leaf-like scrolls. The image on your dagger hilt really brings these to mind.