Another Moro Barung on ebay:)

ernesto.e · 15th May 2006, 05:53 PM

Beunos dias amigos,

Sorry, but the only thing I can do right now is ask part of my learning proscess. Another Moro espadas/Barung? but it has ingravings? are this funtional? or just display? a little thicker and heavier too.
ebay # 6626899179.

gracias

Battara · 15th May 2006, 08:15 PM

There is some speculationi that these type of Moro kris were made for early tourist market. Certainly seems that the hilt ornamintation was stripped long ago. May have been a datu piece. Hard to say.

Rick · 15th May 2006, 08:31 PM

I have one of those ; they're heavy and very nicely made .

I would say quite functional .

mross · 15th May 2006, 10:07 PM

My gut feeling based on the shape of the luks is a newly made tourist piece. They seem to "sharp" and unrefined to me, I don't get a 19th C feel at all.

kai · 15th May 2006, 10:28 PM

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/...tem=6626899179

I'd have assumed this blade from Mindanao to be fairly young, possibly between 1930 and 1950. The engraving seems pretty unusual to me and was, I'd suppose, what attracted several forumites. Punal, Kino, Adni would you mind to comment? Better pics after arrival (and etching) appreciated, too!

BTW, the handle/clamp look almost older than the blade?

kai · 15th May 2006, 10:31 PM

Ok, I was slow to work on the reply...

Rick, does your piece also have similarly extensive engraving?

zelbone · 15th May 2006, 11:40 PM

It's older than you think and better quality, too.

kai · 16th May 2006, 09:54 PM

Quote:

It's older than you think and better quality, too.

Thanks for the info, Zel. What period would you place it and what signs do you look for? Do you assume there's a separate gangya hidden or is it one of those rare 19th c. examples without one? BTW, can anyone identfy the wood used for the hilt?

The engraving does look decent (difficult to tell the depth of the engraving from pics) but the luks and, especially, ricikan details didn't strike me as similarly sophisticated. But this may be just a matter of taste (and missing experience on my part)...

I think nobody assumed this to be one of the flimsy tourist repros made by stock removal - it does look like a serviceable blade. But would this blade fit into Cato's ceremonial category with main emphasis placed on "show" rather than battle-value?

Regards,
Kai

Pangeran Datu · 17th May 2006, 02:47 AM

G'day everyone....

It may help if the proud new owner of the piece were to put everyone out of their speculative misery

j/k...
Where ARE you, Arnie?!

kino · 15th May 2006, 11:40 PM

Sorry Kai, I didn't bid on it. But, I have this Kampilan with an engraved blade that's published in Cato's book. Like Rick's Kris, my Kampilan is quite heavy and functional. Although you can't see it in the photo's, the blade is laminated. What bothers me about it is the size of the crossguard, it's small and not as refined as other Kampilan crossguards. It does have a Spanish coin attached to the hilt.

I have seen a Kampilan that belongs to a collector/dealer named Dave, (Hi Dave), that has a 3 luk/wave and engraved blade. His blade is etched and it definitely is laminated. Cato has stated that the wave bladed Kampilans were made for the tourist market. I find it hard to believe that Dave's Kampilan was made for the tourist market. There is too much work involved in the blade process just to make a few Pisos on it. Sorry no photos of Dave's Kamp.

zelbone · 15th May 2006, 11:48 PM

Hey Kino, I have an engraved blade kampilan as well. The blade is laminated and the okir goes down the entire length of the blade. It's too well made to be a tourist piece. In fact, I got it with an old junggayan barung as a part of a lot brought back by a soldier returning from the Spanish American war. Definately not tourist.

Rick · 16th May 2006, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Ok, I was slow to work on the reply...

Rick, does your piece also have similarly extensive engraving?

Yes.

Battara · 16th May 2006, 01:57 AM

This is why I was hesitant. There are older references that have these as examples before or during the US occupation.

kino · 16th May 2006, 02:34 AM

I remember seeing photo's of Rick's Kris awhile back. Back then I thought it was built too nice to be tourist fodder.

Zel, got photos of your Kamp.

mross · 16th May 2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I'd have assumed this blade from Mindanao to be fairly young, possibly between 1930 and 1950. The engraving seems pretty unusual to me and was, I'd suppose, what attracted several forumites. Punal, Kino, Adni would you mind to comment? Better pics after arrival (and etching) appreciated, too!

BTW, the handle/clamp look almost older than the blade?

I'd love to see better pictures and get your hands on opinion. Hope I didn't upset anybody, I just was giving my thoughts on what I was seeing. Having looked at Ricks blade I see differences in shape.

punal · 16th May 2006, 09:23 PM

Shrug

I tought I had a decent piece

Welp, can't do anything now, I just paid it off.
Honestly, what ever the finding is, I like it, it is a solid fighting kris with no separate gangya which susceptible to cracks. My thoughts, it's a no tourist piece even the luks.

As soon as I get it, I will post close up photos.

Battara · 18th May 2006, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punal

Shrug

I tought I had a decent piece

Welp, can't do anything now, I just paid it off.

Well, I'm not saying it is the cheapo tourist crap. For one thing, blades made for US soldiers at the turn of the 20th century were probably better than what you would think. Also, it could be a more ceremonial, though the jury is out on that one. I would think that the engravings would be more talismanic if it is a true battle piece.

One other possiblity that I wonder about (not mentioned in Cato) is that it and others could have been true battle pieces that were later engraved either for talismanic or sales purposes. Although this hypothesis would place such a piece in the market place, it would not catagorize these as pieces made for the tourist market (only adapted for it).

punal · 18th May 2006, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Well, I'm not saying it is the cheapo tourist crap. For one thing, blades made for US soldiers at the turn of the 20th century were probably better than what you would think. Also, it could be a more ceremonial, though the jury is out on that one. I would think that the engravings would be more talismanic if it is a true battle piece.

One other possiblity that I wonder about (not mentioned in Cato) is that it and others could have been true battle pieces that were later engraved either for talismanic or sales purposes. Although this hypothesis would place such a piece in the market place, it would not catagorize these as pieces made for the tourist market (only adapted for it).

I hear you, boss

jarhead · 22nd May 2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

I'd love to see better pictures and get your hands on opinion. Hope I didn't upset anybody, I just was giving my thoughts on what I was seeing. Having looked at Ricks blade I see differences in shape.

check out this webpage: http://1-22infantry.org/history/hartpagetwo.htm

now compare the luks on both ingraved krises.

mross · 22nd May 2006, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarhead

check out this webpage: http://1-22infantry.org/history/hartpagetwo.htm

now compare the luks on both ingraved krises.

yep, you have a point(sharp luk) they do look similiar, I could very well be wrong, that's why I here to learn.

Nice historic link, how did you find it?

jarhead · 22nd May 2006, 07:42 PM

Nice historic link, how did you find it?[/QUOTE]

it was once posted some time ago by a guy named spunjer under Moro weapons. . .

15th May 2006, 05:53 PM	#1
ernesto.e Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10	Another Moro Barung on ebay:) Beunos dias amigos, Sorry, but the only thing I can do right now is ask part of my learning proscess. Another Moro espadas/Barung? but it has ingravings? are this funtional? or just display? a little thicker and heavier too. ebay # 6626899179. gracias Last edited by Rick; 15th May 2006 at 08:32 PM.

15th May 2006, 08:31 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Well Well ....... I have one of those ; they're heavy and very nicely made . I would say quite functional .

15th May 2006, 10:28 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Kris, not Barung http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/...tem=6626899179 I'd have assumed this blade from Mindanao to be fairly young, possibly between 1930 and 1950. The engraving seems pretty unusual to me and was, I'd suppose, what attracted several forumites. Punal, Kino, Adni would you mind to comment? Better pics after arrival (and etching) appreciated, too! BTW, the handle/clamp look almost older than the blade?

15th May 2006, 11:40 PM	#10
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Sorry Kai, I didn't bid on it. But, I have this Kampilan with an engraved blade that's published in Cato's book. Like Rick's Kris, my Kampilan is quite heavy and functional. Although you can't see it in the photo's, the blade is laminated. What bothers me about it is the size of the crossguard, it's small and not as refined as other Kampilan crossguards. It does have a Spanish coin attached to the hilt. I have seen a Kampilan that belongs to a collector/dealer named Dave, (Hi Dave), that has a 3 luk/wave and engraved blade. His blade is etched and it definitely is laminated. Cato has stated that the wave bladed Kampilans were made for the tourist market. I find it hard to believe that Dave's Kampilan was made for the tourist market. There is too much work involved in the blade process just to make a few Pisos on it. Sorry no photos of Dave's Kamp. Attached Images

15th May 2006, 08:15 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	There is some speculationi that these type of Moro kris were made for early tourist market. Certainly seems that the hilt ornamintation was stripped long ago. May have been a datu piece. Hard to say.

15th May 2006, 10:07 PM	#4
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	My gut feeling based on the shape of the luks is a newly made tourist piece. They seem to "sharp" and unrefined to me, I don't get a 19th C feel at all.

15th May 2006, 10:31 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Ok, I was slow to work on the reply... Rick, does your piece also have similarly extensive engraving?

15th May 2006, 11:40 PM	#7
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	It's older than you think and better quality, too.

17th May 2006, 02:47 AM	#9
Pangeran Datu Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 79	G'day everyone.... It may help if the proud new owner of the piece were to put everyone out of their speculative misery j/k... Where ARE you, Arnie?!

15th May 2006, 11:48 PM	#11
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Hey Kino, I have an engraved blade kampilan as well. The blade is laminated and the okir goes down the entire length of the blade. It's too well made to be a tourist piece. In fact, I got it with an old junggayan barung as a part of a lot brought back by a soldier returning from the Spanish American war. Definately not tourist.

16th May 2006, 01:57 AM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	This is why I was hesitant. There are older references that have these as examples before or during the US occupation.

16th May 2006, 02:34 AM	#14
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	I remember seeing photo's of Rick's Kris awhile back. Back then I thought it was built too nice to be tourist fodder. Zel, got photos of your Kamp.

16th May 2006, 09:23 PM	#16
punal Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 91	Shrug I tought I had a decent piece Welp, can't do anything now, I just paid it off. Honestly, what ever the finding is, I like it, it is a solid fighting kris with no separate gangya which susceptible to cracks. My thoughts, it's a no tourist piece even the luks. As soon as I get it, I will post close up photos.

22nd May 2006, 07:42 PM	#21
jarhead Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 4	Nice historic link, how did you find it?[/QUOTE] it was once posted some time ago by a guy named spunjer under Moro weapons. . .