need help

ariel · 2nd March 2016, 09:42 PM

Folks,
I was reorganizing my long-forgotten storage space and found this kris.
He must have come to me many years ago and was just hiding.
I am still terminally uneducated kris-wise, and the only thing I can guess that the sheath is Jawanese, Gayaman style. Am I off by 180 degrees?

Can you tell me what did I buy many years ago, and whether it has any interest, age and value ( I am not asking about the monetary one, purely historical/artistic)

Will be glad to pay back with insights into Islamic/Caucasian stuff.
Thanks a lot.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd March 2016, 10:29 PM

Ariel, could you please let us have a photo of the fit of the blade into the scabbard?

Put the blade into the scabbard and then take a shot of each side of the base of the blade, looking down the side of the tang.

Thanks.

David · 2nd March 2016, 10:52 PM

The sheath is most definitely a Balinese sheath.
The sheath seems older than the blade to me. The blade looks contemporary, done in a Balinese style, but i am not certain if it was made there or possibly by a Javanese smith in the Bali form. This is not a pamor pattern that you see very often on a true Balinese keris. I suspect that Alan is asking about the fit to see if this sheath was indeed made for this blade or in fact adapted. I suspect the latter, but your photos will tell.
No matter the actual origin of the blade it is a Bali style and i would fit this with a Balinese style hilt. I would think a basic bondalan style would be appropriate here.

ariel · 3rd March 2016, 12:08 AM

Thanks for responding. I am sure the blade and the sheath were made for each other. They fit each other perfectly and the opening of the sheath faithfully reproduces the outline of the top of the gangya.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd March 2016, 12:25 AM

Thanks Ariel.

My first impression was current era production of both blade and scabbard, but if we look closely at the blade, this pamor does not really reflect the way in which the current stuff is done, there are more than a few imperfections, and the cold management of the pamor has not been done very well.

Current era production would be expected to be of much better quality --- these Madura smiths are amongst the world's best pattern welders, ever. Pattern welding has been done in the Sumenep area for hundreds of years, and the present generation have inherited one hell of a lot of knowledge and skill.

The forge work does not look like Bali, main island production, but the cold work does tend to reflect what we expect to see in a Bali keris.

I could change my mind if I handled this blade, but from what I believe I can see in the photos, I am inclined to give it as Bali-Lombok.

The form of the scabbard is unusual, yes, overall form is most certainly Bali, but I cannot recall ever having seen the details in this combination in a Bali scabbard, so once again I'll take a punt on Lombok.

All in all, not a bad keris, as David has suggested I'd opt for a planar Bali hilt, Bondolan style, with or without the hilt ring.

ariel · 3rd March 2016, 12:35 AM

Thanks Alan!

I was wondering about the wood. The sheath is incredibly heavy, very dark to the point I thought it was painted or stained. I took a bit of aceton and rubbed in an inconspicuous area: nothing. The wood color is natural.

2nd March 2016, 09:42 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	need help Folks, I was reorganizing my long-forgotten storage space and found this kris. He must have come to me many years ago and was just hiding. I am still terminally uneducated kris-wise, and the only thing I can guess that the sheath is Jawanese, Gayaman style. Am I off by 180 degrees? Can you tell me what did I buy many years ago, and whether it has any interest, age and value ( I am not asking about the monetary one, purely historical/artistic) Will be glad to pay back with insights into Islamic/Caucasian stuff. Thanks a lot. Attached Images

3rd March 2016, 12:08 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks for responding. I am sure the blade and the sheath were made for each other. They fit each other perfectly and the opening of the sheath faithfully reproduces the outline of the top of the gangya. Attached Images

2nd March 2016, 10:29 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,873	Ariel, could you please let us have a photo of the fit of the blade into the scabbard? Put the blade into the scabbard and then take a shot of each side of the base of the blade, looking down the side of the tang. Thanks.

2nd March 2016, 10:52 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,109	The sheath is most definitely a Balinese sheath. The sheath seems older than the blade to me. The blade looks contemporary, done in a Balinese style, but i am not certain if it was made there or possibly by a Javanese smith in the Bali form. This is not a pamor pattern that you see very often on a true Balinese keris. I suspect that Alan is asking about the fit to see if this sheath was indeed made for this blade or in fact adapted. I suspect the latter, but your photos will tell. No matter the actual origin of the blade it is a Bali style and i would fit this with a Balinese style hilt. I would think a basic bondalan style would be appropriate here.

3rd March 2016, 12:25 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,873	Thanks Ariel. My first impression was current era production of both blade and scabbard, but if we look closely at the blade, this pamor does not really reflect the way in which the current stuff is done, there are more than a few imperfections, and the cold management of the pamor has not been done very well. Current era production would be expected to be of much better quality --- these Madura smiths are amongst the world's best pattern welders, ever. Pattern welding has been done in the Sumenep area for hundreds of years, and the present generation have inherited one hell of a lot of knowledge and skill. The forge work does not look like Bali, main island production, but the cold work does tend to reflect what we expect to see in a Bali keris. I could change my mind if I handled this blade, but from what I believe I can see in the photos, I am inclined to give it as Bali-Lombok. The form of the scabbard is unusual, yes, overall form is most certainly Bali, but I cannot recall ever having seen the details in this combination in a Bali scabbard, so once again I'll take a punt on Lombok. All in all, not a bad keris, as David has suggested I'd opt for a planar Bali hilt, Bondolan style, with or without the hilt ring.

3rd March 2016, 12:35 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks Alan! I was wondering about the wood. The sheath is incredibly heavy, very dark to the point I thought it was painted or stained. I took a bit of aceton and rubbed in an inconspicuous area: nothing. The wood color is natural.