like your opinion on this Palembang keris

sirek · 24th October 2011, 08:37 PM

Just picked this up: nice old Palembang I think.
The scabbard needed some restoration, unfortunately there was only one half.
I hope there is someone who can tell me more about it, is it an original Palembang blade? It seems to me an original composition, the pendoko looks it’s gilt silver, but the gold has almost all disappeared, leaving a faint golden tinge.
The veiled durga hilt has no cracks (but was stuck very tightly) the total length of the blade is: 45cm/17.7inches, length of the pesi: 6cm/2.4inches.

The little one is 24cm/9.4 inches in total, I do not know if it is a patrem, or is it talismanic?

Thanks in advance for your comment,

sirek · 24th October 2011, 08:41 PM

and another picture of the little one

Sajen · 24th October 2011, 10:13 PM

Hello Sirek,

yes, in my humble opinion it is a Palembang blade. Look for comparison to the blade of my Palembang keris. I have a second example with nearly the same features.
Nice catch!

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 24th October 2011, 10:14 PM

And here both side by side. Of course have your blade sogokan and my not but I think that you can see the affinity.

David · 25th October 2011, 12:58 AM

I agree that this is a nice old Palembang kris, but i do not think that this hilt is durga...

BluErf · 25th October 2011, 03:17 PM

Certainly looks Palembang to me. The greneng style is consistent with what I see on my Palembang pieces.

The interesting thing is that this blade looks more 'beefy', with much more accentuated luk than most other Palembang blades of similar style. Here's one of mine for comparison.

sirek · 25th October 2011, 06:46 PM

Thanks for sharing, I welcome your comments.

I am glad that it’s a original, there are indeed many similarities especially the
greneng style.
In my opinion an original Palembang-keris is not so common,and is not often offered for sale in our country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I agree that this is a nice old Palembang kris, but i do not think that this hilt is durga...

I used the name veiled-Durga, simply because I know no other name for this hilt shape.
If I see a picture somewhere, he is described as veiled-Durga

(I saw this name already discussed in previous discussions,but without
result only known as Palembang hilt or batman hilt

)
or has someone already found the correct name for it?

One more for easy viewing without scrolling

Alam Shah · 28th October 2011, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Sirek,

yes, in my humble opinion it is a Palembang blade. Look for comparison to the blade of my Palembang keris. I have a second example with nearly the same features.
Nice catch!

Hi Sirek, your long keris seems to be a nice example of a Palembang keris. The shorther keris, although looks crude.. it's a type that can be found around that region.

Sajen, your keris is also nice, but the selut and mendak do not match, imho looking and post #3 and #4. Looking at the blade, the kembang kacang area seems disturbed especially the pamor works, which suggests a repair, perhaps.

A. G. Maisey · 28th October 2011, 08:15 AM

Yes, I agree with you Penangsang, but not a derivation, a corruption possibly by a person who did not speak the language.

The "vieled durga" hilt is found in Jawa, where some of the people who carve them simply call them "wadon" :- woman.

They are supposedly found in Bali and I don't know what they're called there.

If we accept the Palembang hilt that started this discussion as a variation of the same type of hilt, they are found in the Palembang area of Sumatra.

In Palembang a dialect of Malay called Musi is spoken. Maybe there is a connection. Maybe.

But before I accept "balu mekabun" as a legitimate local name for this hilt, I would need to see some hard evidence that both the names currently used for this hilt form are not the invention of somebody who was not a part of any S.E. Asian culture.

David · 28th October 2011, 02:01 PM

The wadon hilts of Jawa have a definite female form (ergo the name). Can someone please show me what elements these palembang hilts have that open the door to the same interpretation. I'm just not seeing it. This figure seems much more masculine to me, even if faceless...

Sajen · 29th October 2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Sajen, your keris is also nice, but the selut and mendak do not match, imho looking and post #3 and #4. Looking at the blade, the kembang kacang area seems disturbed especially the pamor works, which suggests a repair, perhaps.

Hello Alam,

yes, I know that mendhak and selut are wrong but I get this keris in this way. Blade was corroded and the hilt in the same form was split. So the blade was washed and etched and I replaced the handle. Until now I don't found a matching selut. I don't think that the kembang kacang is repaired but I agree that it look on the picture like this. BTW gandik area and the top of the gonjo was at some time before gilded.

Regards,

Detlef

24th October 2011, 08:37 PM	#1
sirek Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 169	like your opinion on this Palembang keris Just picked this up: nice old Palembang I think. The scabbard needed some restoration, unfortunately there was only one half. I hope there is someone who can tell me more about it, is it an original Palembang blade? It seems to me an original composition, the pendoko looks it’s gilt silver, but the gold has almost all disappeared, leaving a faint golden tinge. The veiled durga hilt has no cracks (but was stuck very tightly) the total length of the blade is: 45cm/17.7inches, length of the pesi: 6cm/2.4inches. The little one is 24cm/9.4 inches in total, I do not know if it is a patrem, or is it talismanic? Thanks in advance for your comment, Attached Images

24th October 2011, 08:41 PM	#2
sirek Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 169	and another picture of the little one Attached Images

25th October 2011, 03:17 PM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Certainly looks Palembang to me. The greneng style is consistent with what I see on my Palembang pieces. The interesting thing is that this blade looks more 'beefy', with much more accentuated luk than most other Palembang blades of similar style. Here's one of mine for comparison. Attached Images

24th October 2011, 10:13 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,768	Hello Sirek, yes, in my humble opinion it is a Palembang blade. Look for comparison to the blade of my Palembang keris. I have a second example with nearly the same features. Nice catch! Regards, Detlef Attached Images

24th October 2011, 10:14 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,768	And here both side by side. Of course have your blade sogokan and my not but I think that you can see the affinity. Attached Images

25th October 2011, 12:58 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,119	I agree that this is a nice old Palembang kris, but i do not think that this hilt is durga...

28th October 2011, 08:15 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Yes, I agree with you Penangsang, but not a derivation, a corruption possibly by a person who did not speak the language. The "vieled durga" hilt is found in Jawa, where some of the people who carve them simply call them "wadon" :- woman. They are supposedly found in Bali and I don't know what they're called there. If we accept the Palembang hilt that started this discussion as a variation of the same type of hilt, they are found in the Palembang area of Sumatra. In Palembang a dialect of Malay called Musi is spoken. Maybe there is a connection. Maybe. But before I accept "balu mekabun" as a legitimate local name for this hilt, I would need to see some hard evidence that both the names currently used for this hilt form are not the invention of somebody who was not a part of any S.E. Asian culture.

28th October 2011, 02:01 PM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,119	The wadon hilts of Jawa have a definite female form (ergo the name). Can someone please show me what elements these palembang hilts have that open the door to the same interpretation. I'm just not seeing it. This figure seems much more masculine to me, even if faceless...