Kilij for comment

Ivo · 25th December 2019, 09:30 AM

Hello and Happy Holidays to all.
What is your opinion on this Kilij .
I think the blade is European.
There was a topic in the forum , similar to mine, there were opinions that he was Balkan.

Regards,
Ivo

mariusgmioc · 25th December 2019, 10:10 AM

Hello,

I am not well versed in Ottoman blades but yours is definitely not of the classic Ottoman shape.

I don't even see anything to point towards Balkan origins.

To my eyes, your blade is a classic European (my guess would be German) trade blade very similar to the European hussars blades.

I attach a photo of a classic Ottoman shamshir, one of a classic kilij and a hussar's for comparison.

With respect to the dress, it is certainly Ottoman but whether Turkish or Balkan, I cannot say.

ariel · 25th December 2019, 12:23 PM

It is a classic Ottoman kilij, only it is a late Ottoman kilij,end of 19 century. At that time both Ottomans and Persians started importing European ( very often German) trade blades and installing S-guards. Over the years there were several such examples posted here, and some of them had names of Armenian suppliers etched on the blades, and some even had location of the business next to the names: “ Constantinople”. By that time Ottomans largely lost their Balkan components, so I am pretty sure your kilij was of Anatolian origin.

Examples of such swords are shown in Astvatsaturyan’s book on Turkish weapons.

TVV · 25th December 2019, 06:00 PM

The style of the decoration on the brass furniture of the scabbard looks very Balkan to me, and is typical of the late 19th century. The blade looks older than the fittings, which is not unusual, as valued heirloom blades were often rehilted. Jim will probably opine on the blade, but I would guess Austrian/Central European from the 18th century. Very nice sword Ivo, congratulations.

RSWORD · 25th December 2019, 06:43 PM

I wouldn’t rule out India as the source of the blade. The semi circle “eyelash” as well as the other two symbols can be found on Indian blades of similar overall design and profile. Looks like you have a recessed spine, a sort of fuller on the spine, which is another feature found on Indian blades and a few other cultures. (China, E Europe). Given those features I doubt it is an European blade.

My $0.02. 🤓

corrado26 · 25th December 2019, 07:26 PM

I do not know wether these "eyelashs" hve been in use in India. What I know is that this feature is often to be found on the blades of Hungarian husar sabres.
corrado26

25th December 2019, 09:30 AM	#1
Ivo Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 38	Kilij for comment Hello and Happy Holidays to all. What is your opinion on this Kilij . I think the blade is European. There was a topic in the forum , similar to mine, there were opinions that he was Balkan. Regards, Ivo Attached Images

25th December 2019, 10:10 AM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Hello, I am not well versed in Ottoman blades but yours is definitely not of the classic Ottoman shape. I don't even see anything to point towards Balkan origins. To my eyes, your blade is a classic European (my guess would be German) trade blade very similar to the European hussars blades. I attach a photo of a classic Ottoman shamshir, one of a classic kilij and a hussar's for comparison. With respect to the dress, it is certainly Ottoman but whether Turkish or Balkan, I cannot say. Attached Images Last edited by mariusgmioc; 25th December 2019 at 10:39 AM.

25th December 2019, 07:26 PM	#6
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	I do not know wether these "eyelashs" hve been in use in India. What I know is that this feature is often to be found on the blades of Hungarian husar sabres. corrado26 Attached Images

25th December 2019, 12:23 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is a classic Ottoman kilij, only it is a late Ottoman kilij,end of 19 century. At that time both Ottomans and Persians started importing European ( very often German) trade blades and installing S-guards. Over the years there were several such examples posted here, and some of them had names of Armenian suppliers etched on the blades, and some even had location of the business next to the names: “ Constantinople”. By that time Ottomans largely lost their Balkan components, so I am pretty sure your kilij was of Anatolian origin. Examples of such swords are shown in Astvatsaturyan’s book on Turkish weapons.

25th December 2019, 06:00 PM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,623	The style of the decoration on the brass furniture of the scabbard looks very Balkan to me, and is typical of the late 19th century. The blade looks older than the fittings, which is not unusual, as valued heirloom blades were often rehilted. Jim will probably opine on the blade, but I would guess Austrian/Central European from the 18th century. Very nice sword Ivo, congratulations.

25th December 2019, 06:43 PM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	I wouldn’t rule out India as the source of the blade. The semi circle “eyelash” as well as the other two symbols can be found on Indian blades of similar overall design and profile. Looks like you have a recessed spine, a sort of fuller on the spine, which is another feature found on Indian blades and a few other cultures. (China, E Europe). Given those features I doubt it is an European blade. My $0.02. 🤓