Flintlock Schindler Zella

[junker]

Hi,
a guy which I met last weekend has a flintlock rifle which is marked:
"Schindler Zella bey Gotha"
It semms to be around 1780.
Sadly I could not make photos yet and the condition isn`t the best.

So do any of you has the "Stoeckl" book at hand and could say if the gunmaker is listed in this period.

If I get any information I could meet him again and I hope pics will follow.

thanks
from Dirk

[Matchlock]

Hi Dirk,


My 3,000+ book library also holds the Støckel volumes, both the two - still mostly important! - original two-volume edition Håndskydevåbens Bedømmelse from the 1940's and the three volume crap which called Der neue Støckel.

Sadly, no gun maker named Schindler is recorded in Zella for the 18th century.
But I have records of a certain gunsmith C. Schindler in Zella St. Blasii in ca. 1840. Zella St. Blasii is the city of Zella in Thuringia, Eastern Germany, today, neighboring the famous firearms production center of Suhl. That person C. Schindler most probably was a descendant of the Schindler you mentioned.

So please ask that guy who owns the piece to take good images, and of the signature as well. I also need to know whether that signature is on the barrel or the lock. After all, I do not have telepathic powers ...


Best,
Michael

[junker]

Hallo Michael,

danke

The writing is on the barrel, the lock is not marked.
I found out that in a past Wendl auction there was a C.L.Schindler percussion rifle. With the same spelling Zella bey gotha.
Unfortunately there was no picture anymore.

Hope thatIi will get some photos, then we may have more clues

mit den allerbesten Güßen
Dirk

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Dirk,
I have more than a passing interest in German sporting firearms of the 19thC, I hope these images will be of interest. A percussion sporting gun mid 19thC.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Matchlock]

Hi and Hallo, Dirk,
Hi Norman,


On reading your posts, and after a glance at Norman's images, I can tell for sure that the overall appearance of the double-barreled side-by-side percussion shotgun doubtlessly allows for assigning a date of ca. 1840-50 to it, with all of its parts, including the Neo-Gothic style of the signature, definitely being contemporary, and preserved in fine condition. Only the original shellac varnish seems to have been removed from the walnut stock.

Anyways, I am glad to find my information concerning '... records of a certain gunsmith C. Schindler in Zella St. Blasii in ca. 1840' proven right.
It is true that this item is far out of the field of expertise I usually plow, but so is the originally supposed late-18th century period of manufacture.


Best,
Danke insbesondere Dir, Dirk,
and special thanks for 'callin' (me) out to the lunatic fringe' (from: Johnny Cash, The Last Gunfighter Ballad) of my Late Medieval centered interest,
Michael

[junker]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your reply and for looking after the name.
Finally I just get some photos of the Item, which I like to share.
The name is on the barrel, the lock little decorated but without marks.

Best
Dirk

[junker]

sorry, Norman,
thank you also for your photos.

[Matchlock]

Hi Dirk,

To that flintlock shotgun by Schindler in Zella, I can assign a date of ca. 1730-40, mainly based on the shape and the (quite simple) engraving of the lock plate.
The walnut stock, though, seems to be a late 18th/early 19th century working time replacement; the rear screw for the gun sling is missing from the underside of the butt stock.
The overall condition of the item cannot not be exactly called fine; the engraving on the lock plate (Late Baroque scrolls) has been much overcleaned.

Best, und schöne Grüße,
Michael