Pamor Questions

Karttikeya · 3rd March 2012, 02:06 PM

Dear all, I have some questions regarding intention of pamor making. I have attached a photo of keris Mahesa Lajer with pamor Kul Buntet (or probably there is another suitable name for this kind of pamor) but you may see the center of its pamor there is an object black circle which have made me wonder whether this is what we call pamor tambal or probably kandas wojo. The maker seems intentionally set this pamor tambal out in the center of Kul buntet for specific purpose. Anybody have ever seen this kind of pamor?

Richard Furrer · 3rd March 2012, 06:48 PM

It appears to be a portion of the Ganja has been cut off early in forging and welded in the center of the pattern.
What is on the other side..I assume something different and this is a single sided pattern.

I have seen human figures (some very well done and others you had to hold your head just so and squint to envision them)

Of all the cultural pattern-welding I have seen..those associated with the keris are the most creative.
Ric

Richard Furrer · 3rd March 2012, 06:49 PM

sorry...your question of it being intentional...yes, very much so.

Ric

A. G. Maisey · 3rd March 2012, 07:43 PM

I'm not nearly as certain as Richard that this observed result is intentional.

If it is a plug that goes right through the blade, there are a number of reasons to explain why this might have been done, and there is no way that we can know at this remove what the reason was. It could be to hide a flaw, it could be to incorporate a part of an older blade into this one, it could be for some esoteric reason, it could be for some reason that we would not even think of now.

If it is a patch, rather than a plug, a similar reason could apply as for the use of a plug. However, it could be an exposure of the core, and the only way I personally could be certain of that would be by examination under magnification. From a photo I simply cannot tell.

Usual keris production technique is that prior to welding the core into a blade, a length of pamor material is cut which provides the bakalan used to forge the gonjo, so the gonjo material is in fact the same as the pamor material in the blade. It is extremely unusual for a gonjo to be made of different material to the material that forms the outer faces of the blade.
Usually when a gonjo is of different material to the blade material, it is because the gonjo has been replaced, or because a plain black gonjo is required. Where a gonjo is of pamor material, that material will be expected to be the same as the pamor material in the blade.

Karttikeya · 4th March 2012, 03:22 AM

Thank you for your explanation, gentlemen. For your information, other side of the blade is about the same thing with whether a patch of plug inserted into the blade however the shape is not nicely round but looks more like rhombus. The people here call it as tambal "ceblokan", sorry Richard I do not know how to translate ceblokan in Englsih, I also do not know yet what is the definition of ceblokan. Pak Alan probably can help us to provide definition of ceblokan term. To my eye, this is unusual pamor Kul Buntet with a patch or plug in the centre of the pattern.

A. G. Maisey · 4th March 2012, 05:49 AM

Actually, the word is "ceplokan".

"ceplok" is a fried egg, or a circular mark.

When we say pamor is "pamor ceplok", or "pamor ceplokan" it must be a patch-type pamor:- pamor tambal, where a patch of material is applied to the surface.

If this mark is the result of a plug being inserted, it really should not be called "ceplokan".

The word "ceblok" means to fall, or to drop.

Of course, they both sound very similar if spoken, and it is easy to confuse spelling, which with Javanese is not all that important anyway, what is important is the way a word sounds, and the context. In the context of pamor, it is "ceplok"

3rd March 2012, 02:06 PM	#1
Karttikeya Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 54	Pamor Questions Dear all, I have some questions regarding intention of pamor making. I have attached a photo of keris Mahesa Lajer with pamor Kul Buntet (or probably there is another suitable name for this kind of pamor) but you may see the center of its pamor there is an object black circle which have made me wonder whether this is what we call pamor tambal or probably kandas wojo. The maker seems intentionally set this pamor tambal out in the center of Kul buntet for specific purpose. Anybody have ever seen this kind of pamor? Attached Images

3rd March 2012, 06:48 PM	#2
Richard Furrer Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 163	It appears to be a portion of the Ganja has been cut off early in forging and welded in the center of the pattern. What is on the other side..I assume something different and this is a single sided pattern. I have seen human figures (some very well done and others you had to hold your head just so and squint to envision them) Of all the cultural pattern-welding I have seen..those associated with the keris are the most creative. Ric

3rd March 2012, 06:49 PM	#3
Richard Furrer Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 163	sorry...your question of it being intentional...yes, very much so. Ric

3rd March 2012, 07:43 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	I'm not nearly as certain as Richard that this observed result is intentional. If it is a plug that goes right through the blade, there are a number of reasons to explain why this might have been done, and there is no way that we can know at this remove what the reason was. It could be to hide a flaw, it could be to incorporate a part of an older blade into this one, it could be for some esoteric reason, it could be for some reason that we would not even think of now. If it is a patch, rather than a plug, a similar reason could apply as for the use of a plug. However, it could be an exposure of the core, and the only way I personally could be certain of that would be by examination under magnification. From a photo I simply cannot tell. Usual keris production technique is that prior to welding the core into a blade, a length of pamor material is cut which provides the bakalan used to forge the gonjo, so the gonjo material is in fact the same as the pamor material in the blade. It is extremely unusual for a gonjo to be made of different material to the material that forms the outer faces of the blade. Usually when a gonjo is of different material to the blade material, it is because the gonjo has been replaced, or because a plain black gonjo is required. Where a gonjo is of pamor material, that material will be expected to be the same as the pamor material in the blade.

4th March 2012, 03:22 AM	#5
Karttikeya Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 54	Thank you for your explanation, gentlemen. For your information, other side of the blade is about the same thing with whether a patch of plug inserted into the blade however the shape is not nicely round but looks more like rhombus. The people here call it as tambal "ceblokan", sorry Richard I do not know how to translate ceblokan in Englsih, I also do not know yet what is the definition of ceblokan. Pak Alan probably can help us to provide definition of ceblokan term. To my eye, this is unusual pamor Kul Buntet with a patch or plug in the centre of the pattern.

4th March 2012, 05:49 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Actually, the word is "ceplokan". "ceplok" is a fried egg, or a circular mark. When we say pamor is "pamor ceplok", or "pamor ceplokan" it must be a patch-type pamor:- pamor tambal, where a patch of material is applied to the surface. If this mark is the result of a plug being inserted, it really should not be called "ceplokan". The word "ceblok" means to fall, or to drop. Of course, they both sound very similar if spoken, and it is easy to confuse spelling, which with Javanese is not all that important anyway, what is important is the way a word sounds, and the context. In the context of pamor, it is "ceplok"