Spanish Dirk?

shayde78 · 1st July 2020, 11:15 PM

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping some of you will weigh in on a recent acquisition. I believe it is a Spanish dagger, made in a style consistent with Albacete (although not entirely the same as other examples on this forum). I found a very similar piece in one of my references (see last picture) in which it is described a a possible naval dirk (Mark - that's your cue!). However, Capwell's book has a number of errors, and even so, the description states it isn't certainly a naval dirk, but one for maritime use. Regardless, it is a substantial knife, seemingly intended for proper use. I'm guessing late 19th century? The ricasso seems a unique detail I've not seen elsewhere. It is sharpened in those scallops [edited 7/2/20 1:34am - these scallops are UNsharpened], and the edge begins just past them.

Any comments welcome!

Specifications:
Total length - 16" (41cm)
Blade length - 12" (30cm)
Hilt length - 4" (10.5cm)
Blade width - 1" (2.5cm) at the guard
Blade thickness - 0.20" (5.1mm) at 4.5 inches from the guard (the thickest part of the blade)
Missing some of the ribbing on the hilt - example indicated by arrows in 7th picture.

Jim McDougall · 2nd July 2020, 02:24 AM

I cant add much, but interesting item, and nicely placed along with details and identifying source. This kind of posting sharing these with already completed research is outstanding!! Here its always a learning experience, and nicely done Shayde!! Thank you!!!

M ELEY · 3rd July 2020, 03:10 AM

A very nice piece, Shayde! It does indeed have many of the elements of a possible naval dirk, including the simple, but stylish guard and fluted grip/capped pommel. The blade shape and design, however, make me wonder if this might be a Philippine side knife. many of these types do resemble Euro dirks. I'm just not sure-

Perhaps some of our Ethno experts could weigh in on naval dirk vs Filipino bowie-style knife. In any case, a very fine and old piece! (Unfortunately, many collectors do get fooled by some of the Filipino/Malay swords, that also often resemble early Euro cutlasses and colonial American hangers. Throw in the confusion with Spanish colonial and its a whole 'nother ball park!)
Mark

midelburgo · 3rd July 2020, 11:44 AM

I think it could be Spanish, but this or the one in the book are not naval, they are rather civilian weapons, possibly from Albacete. Smiths from Albacete could establish themselves in other places and work the same ways.

Thay have a museum there.

http://www.museocuchilleria.es/coleccion-jose-falcao/

http://armasblancas.es/index.php/com...lcazar-sarrion

Richard G · 3rd July 2020, 12:15 PM

I have a suspicion it is a spear head repurposed. If so I would go for the Philippine option.
Regards
Richard

M ELEY · 4th July 2020, 03:55 AM

Hello Richard. I also had wondered about a repurposed spear-head, but was afraid to propose it as it is not my area of expertise. I've had a dagger fashioned from a Malay spear-head and I know such weapons exist.

1st July 2020, 11:15 PM	#1
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Spanish Dirk? Hi everyone, I'm hoping some of you will weigh in on a recent acquisition. I believe it is a Spanish dagger, made in a style consistent with Albacete (although not entirely the same as other examples on this forum). I found a very similar piece in one of my references (see last picture) in which it is described a a possible naval dirk (Mark - that's your cue!). However, Capwell's book has a number of errors, and even so, the description states it isn't certainly a naval dirk, but one for maritime use. Regardless, it is a substantial knife, seemingly intended for proper use. I'm guessing late 19th century? The ricasso seems a unique detail I've not seen elsewhere. It is sharpened in those scallops [edited 7/2/20 1:34am - these scallops are UNsharpened], and the edge begins just past them. Any comments welcome! Specifications: Total length - 16" (41cm) Blade length - 12" (30cm) Hilt length - 4" (10.5cm) Blade width - 1" (2.5cm) at the guard Blade thickness - 0.20" (5.1mm) at 4.5 inches from the guard (the thickest part of the blade) Missing some of the ribbing on the hilt - example indicated by arrows in 7th picture. Attached Images Last edited by shayde78; 2nd July 2020 at 02:34 AM.

3rd July 2020, 11:44 AM	#4
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 256	I think it could be Spanish, but this or the one in the book are not naval, they are rather civilian weapons, possibly from Albacete. Smiths from Albacete could establish themselves in other places and work the same ways. Thay have a museum there. http://www.museocuchilleria.es/coleccion-jose-falcao/ http://armasblancas.es/index.php/com...lcazar-sarrion Last edited by midelburgo; 3rd July 2020 at 11:54 AM.

2nd July 2020, 02:24 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	I cant add much, but interesting item, and nicely placed along with details and identifying source. This kind of posting sharing these with already completed research is outstanding!! Here its always a learning experience, and nicely done Shayde!! Thank you!!!

3rd July 2020, 03:10 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,093	A very nice piece, Shayde! It does indeed have many of the elements of a possible naval dirk, including the simple, but stylish guard and fluted grip/capped pommel. The blade shape and design, however, make me wonder if this might be a Philippine side knife. many of these types do resemble Euro dirks. I'm just not sure- Perhaps some of our Ethno experts could weigh in on naval dirk vs Filipino bowie-style knife. In any case, a very fine and old piece! (Unfortunately, many collectors do get fooled by some of the Filipino/Malay swords, that also often resemble early Euro cutlasses and colonial American hangers. Throw in the confusion with Spanish colonial and its a whole 'nother ball park!) Mark

3rd July 2020, 12:15 PM	#5
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 405	I have a suspicion it is a spear head repurposed. If so I would go for the Philippine option. Regards Richard

4th July 2020, 03:55 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,093	Hello Richard. I also had wondered about a repurposed spear-head, but was afraid to propose it as it is not my area of expertise. I've had a dagger fashioned from a Malay spear-head and I know such weapons exist.