visayan kris

tanaruz · 11th September 2022, 10:46 AM

Hello all,

I have with me a Visayan kris (unfortunately, no scabbard).

What really surprises me is the...well I really don't know what to make or describe it, the open 'structure' that runs along the middle of the blade.

I haven't seen anything like this before (Moro or non-moro kris).

Really appreciate any inputs/info. Is this a babaylan piece?

Kind regards

Yves

tanaruz · 24th September 2022, 11:01 AM

Hi,

update on the Visayan kris. Since this was a 'mystery blade' to us(me and my father)-having an 'open groove' in the middle of the blade, we sought the original blacksmith in the hinterlands of Iloilo (and oh, it was scary because of some 'insurgents'). The kris' design was the blacksmith's signature design- to identify it being from his hometown. It was also designed, he said, to lighten the blade and most especially- if 'stabbed into the body (lungs, in particular) it would cause the collapse of the lungs and thus instant death.'

There we go. From the horse's mouth.

Regards

Yves

Bob A · 24th September 2022, 06:13 PM

Nice bit of field research!

It might be worthwhile to post the name of the blacksmith and his village for future reference.

Ian · 27th September 2022, 01:52 PM

Yves,

Great story and interesting piece. Since this is a weapon without a cultural link to the Moro people, I'm not sure we should call it a kris. It is certainly a wavy-bladed or flambé sword, but it lacks a gangya and other features of a Moro kris. Your blade's style looks closer to the wavy-bladed knives and swords of central Luzon, which I would also not call kris.

David · 27th September 2022, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Yves,

Great story and interesting piece. Since this is a weapon without a cultural link to the Moro people, I'm not sure we should call it a kris. It is certainly a wavy-bladed or flambé sword, but it lacks a gangya and other features of a Moro kris. Your blade's style looks closer to the wavy-bladed knives and swords of central Luzon, which I would also not call kris.

I'm glad you said this instead of me this time. LOL!

Ian · 30th September 2022, 11:40 PM

Quote:

I'm glad you said this instead of me this time. LOL!

chmorshuutz · 1st October 2022, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Yves,

Great story and interesting piece. Since this is a weapon without a cultural link to the Moro people, I'm not sure we should call it a kris. It is certainly a wavy-bladed or flambÃ© sword, but it lacks a gangya and other features of a Moro kris. Your blade's style looks closer to the wavy-bladed knives and swords of central Luzon, which I would also not call kris.

Along with their counterparts in Luzon, they are called kris by the blacksmiths and locals, there's no other term used for it, so I don't see the problem here especially when they don't explicitly add "Moro" in it.

In a way, it is similar with panabas. A panabas in Tagalog region is in some ways similar, but not exactly the same, with panabas in Mindanao, but it doesn't make the former any less legitimate just because it doesn't exactly look the same or not as popular as its southern counterpart.

Ian · 2nd October 2022, 06:38 PM

chmorshuutz,

You raise a very valid point. The name of an item within its own culture should be respected. By extension, a wavy bladed dagger made in Germany or Japan, for example, could also be labeled a kris if the maker and local consumers think that is a good name for it.

However, there is another way to look at this. (David please add your expertise here too). In the Muslim world of S.E. Asia, especially in Indonesia, the keris/kris has spiritual and mystical significance. It is not always a wavy-bladed knife or sword (it can be straight-bladed also), however it occupies a special place in the culture of its people. Those cultural beliefs should be respected. A keris/kris is not just a wavy-bladed item. Using the term keris/kris for an item that may superficially resemble a keris/kris misses the inherent properties and significance of those items in the originating cultures.

11th September 2022, 10:46 AM	#1
tanaruz Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 267	visayan kris Hello all, I have with me a Visayan kris (unfortunately, no scabbard). What really surprises me is the...well I really don't know what to make or describe it, the open 'structure' that runs along the middle of the blade. I haven't seen anything like this before (Moro or non-moro kris). Really appreciate any inputs/info. Is this a babaylan piece? Kind regards Yves Attached Images

24th September 2022, 11:01 AM	#2
tanaruz Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 267	visayn kris Hi, update on the Visayan kris. Since this was a 'mystery blade' to us(me and my father)-having an 'open groove' in the middle of the blade, we sought the original blacksmith in the hinterlands of Iloilo (and oh, it was scary because of some 'insurgents'). The kris' design was the blacksmith's signature design- to identify it being from his hometown. It was also designed, he said, to lighten the blade and most especially- if 'stabbed into the body (lungs, in particular) it would cause the collapse of the lungs and thus instant death.' There we go. From the horse's mouth. Regards Yves

24th September 2022, 06:13 PM	#3
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 427	Nice bit of field research! It might be worthwhile to post the name of the blacksmith and his village for future reference.

27th September 2022, 01:52 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Yves, Great story and interesting piece. Since this is a weapon without a cultural link to the Moro people, I'm not sure we should call it a kris. It is certainly a wavy-bladed or flambé sword, but it lacks a gangya and other features of a Moro kris. Your blade's style looks closer to the wavy-bladed knives and swords of central Luzon, which I would also not call kris.

2nd October 2022, 06:38 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	chmorshuutz, You raise a very valid point. The name of an item within its own culture should be respected. By extension, a wavy bladed dagger made in Germany or Japan, for example, could also be labeled a kris if the maker and local consumers think that is a good name for it. However, there is another way to look at this. (David please add your expertise here too). In the Muslim world of S.E. Asia, especially in Indonesia, the keris/kris has spiritual and mystical significance. It is not always a wavy-bladed knife or sword (it can be straight-bladed also), however it occupies a special place in the culture of its people. Those cultural beliefs should be respected. A keris/kris is not just a wavy-bladed item. Using the term keris/kris for an item that may superficially resemble a keris/kris misses the inherent properties and significance of those items in the originating cultures.