Yet another wotsit.

kronckew · 19th June 2019, 09:04 AM

Found this item at a local antiques dealer. He had no idea what it was. Other than it's obviously a well made and well balanced weapon I also have no idea who made it, what it's designed for, when it was made, or where. The sword is 34.5 in. long overall. The blade edges are only sharp in the tip section if front of the thick diamond x-section, and is in part blued. Looks like it once the whole blade was blued.

As a wild guess it looks like a cross between a sword breaker, a rapier, and a very long parrying dagger/sword catcher, and the guard looks vaguely oriental to me. The brass spiral grip looks like a European briquette sword. It was obvious made this way deliberately as a whole and not a marriage of spare parts. There may be a makers mark hidden under one of the short 'languettes' which I can't make out, might be easier after I clean it up a bit.

ny info anyone can supply will be appreciated, and thanks in advance...

Victrix · 19th June 2019, 09:24 AM

It looks like a more recent/modern version of an estoc/panzerstecker? I never saw one with a brass grip before and they are typically longer. I posted pictures of my antique one here in post #15 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=estoc. The style of the cross guard is similar shape but yours is cruder. This type of cross guard was popular in E.Europe in 17thC.

kronckew · 19th June 2019, 09:35 AM

Thanks again for that.

European troops wore armour well into the 19c (and still do for ceremonial occasions), mine would be handy for thrusting into the unprotected bits of a curassier, or a 17c turk in mail. the brass grip was cast to fit this weapon, balances it nicely, and the length would suit an infantry officer more than a cavalryman i suspect. Looks simpler than the estocs in the ref. post above, but couple have similar more finished guards. Mine looks more like a ;munitions' grade, well made but not for a high ranking (and rich) noble.

I note in the 'estoc' wikipedia entry they mention them being simply hung on the owner's horse harness, the front of the guard would facilitate that or being used as a belt hook. It also notes that infantry would also carry them, also for penetrating mail and i would assume a shorter version like mine. It mentions the portion nehind the tip being unsharpened and their use two handed with the off hand in front of the guard, which could be done with mine to better guide it in for a coup de grâce.

Infantry Estoc/koncerz a possibility then...

Victrix · 19th June 2019, 10:58 AM

Yours doesn’t look very Hungarian (e.g. grip, pommel) so I wouldn’t rule out Indian origins although my knowledge of the latter is very limited. That kind of brass grip looks quite early 19thC to me.

Kmaddock · 19th June 2019, 12:23 PM

Hi
A wild guess with nothing to substantiate it would be a sword for bull fighting?
Interesting item and the brass handle does look to have some good age to it
regards
Ken

M ELEY · 19th June 2019, 03:50 PM

Perhaps the handle is a more modern replacement? The cross guard and blade seem to show honest aging. A nice piece, but also a puzzle-

19th June 2019, 09:35 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	Thanks again for that. European troops wore armour well into the 19c (and still do for ceremonial occasions), mine would be handy for thrusting into the unprotected bits of a curassier, or a 17c turk in mail. the brass grip was cast to fit this weapon, balances it nicely, and the length would suit an infantry officer more than a cavalryman i suspect. Looks simpler than the estocs in the ref. post above, but couple have similar more finished guards. Mine looks more like a ;munitions' grade, well made but not for a high ranking (and rich) noble. I note in the 'estoc' wikipedia entry they mention them being simply hung on the owner's horse harness, the front of the guard would facilitate that or being used as a belt hook. It also notes that infantry would also carry them, also for penetrating mail and i would assume a shorter version like mine. It mentions the portion nehind the tip being unsharpened and their use two handed with the off hand in front of the guard, which could be done with mine to better guide it in for a coup de grâce. Infantry Estoc/koncerz a possibility then... Last edited by kronckew; 19th June 2019 at 10:01 AM.

19th June 2019, 09:04 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	Yet another wotsit. Found this item at a local antiques dealer. He had no idea what it was. Other than it's obviously a well made and well balanced weapon I also have no idea who made it, what it's designed for, when it was made, or where. The sword is 34.5 in. long overall. The blade edges are only sharp in the tip section if front of the thick diamond x-section, and is in part blued. Looks like it once the whole blade was blued. As a wild guess it looks like a cross between a sword breaker, a rapier, and a very long parrying dagger/sword catcher, and the guard looks vaguely oriental to me. The brass spiral grip looks like a European briquette sword. It was obvious made this way deliberately as a whole and not a marriage of spare parts. There may be a makers mark hidden under one of the short 'languettes' which I can't make out, might be easier after I clean it up a bit. ny info anyone can supply will be appreciated, and thanks in advance... Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 19th June 2019 at 09:37 AM.

19th June 2019, 09:24 AM	#2
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 713	It looks like a more recent/modern version of an estoc/panzerstecker? I never saw one with a brass grip before and they are typically longer. I posted pictures of my antique one here in post #15 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=estoc. The style of the cross guard is similar shape but yours is cruder. This type of cross guard was popular in E.Europe in 17thC.

19th June 2019, 10:58 AM	#4
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 713	Yours doesn’t look very Hungarian (e.g. grip, pommel) so I wouldn’t rule out Indian origins although my knowledge of the latter is very limited. That kind of brass grip looks quite early 19thC to me.

19th June 2019, 12:23 PM	#5
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Hi A wild guess with nothing to substantiate it would be a sword for bull fighting? Interesting item and the brass handle does look to have some good age to it regards Ken

19th June 2019, 03:50 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,101	Perhaps the handle is a more modern replacement? The cross guard and blade seem to show honest aging. A nice piece, but also a puzzle-