small kris type blade dagger

Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 23rd May 2023, 02:03 AM

I have an idea where this one is from but am not certain, my thoughts are Austrisn or German end of the 19thc to 1920s, Victorian era I suppose.
The blade is in very high polish, thick and like a razor along its cutting edge, the guard is nickel silver and the small ferrule with Greek fret repousse design on it is in 925 grade silver, the silver throat collar on the leather over wood sheath is in 925 grade silver, and sadly the silver end chape of the sheath is missing.
Is it a mans knife of a ladies muff dagger for self protection ??? who knows, it is certainly a quality piece wherever if is from.
size is just 9 inches long in sheath, the blade is 5 inches ,long and is oval section, can anybody place it for exact origin please ?.

Snody

Sajen · 23rd May 2023, 06:02 AM

Hi Snody,
For me it is German and need to get moved to the European section!

Regards,
Detlef

Turkoman.khan · 23rd May 2023, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maj-Biffy Snodgrass

I have an idea where this one is from but am not certain, my thoughts are Austrisn or German end of the 19thc to 1920s, Victorian era I suppose.
The blade is in very high polish, thick and like a razor along its cutting edge, the guard is nickel silver and the small ferrule with Greek fret repousse design on it is in 925 grade silver, the silver throat collar on the leather over wood sheath is in 925 grade silver, and sadly the silver end chape of the sheath is missing.
Is it a mans knife of a ladies muff dagger for self protection ??? who knows, it is certainly a quality piece wherever if is from.
size is just 9 inches long in sheath, the blade is 5 inches ,long and is oval section, can anybody place it for exact origin please ?.

Snody

Hello Snody.
I've always liked those small, dainty wavy-bladed knives. I have a similar one in my collection. I think Detlef is right and it's Germany. Somewhere I came across information that such knives were worn by men.

Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 23rd May 2023, 02:09 PM

German it is then, how to move it to the Euro section i'm not sure of, but sure someone will do it anyway.

snody.

fernando · 23rd May 2023, 08:54 PM

So let's move it

.

Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 24th May 2023, 02:14 PM

M ELEY · 24th May 2023, 02:51 PM

You mentioned a 'muff dagger' and that's what I was thinking. The 'soiled doves' of the American west carried small daggers like this strapped to their leg for use when a customer got unruly. Were it a little bigger, I'd say a gambler's boot dirk, but the size leads more to a concealed implement. No expert, just my 2 cents...

Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 24th May 2023, 06:13 PM

, I would say so !! muff knife maybe, garter or stocking knife it could well be, property of a German lady of questionable night time repute's knife from the early Reeperbahn days of early 20thc Hamburg, or a German lady of the upper echelons self protection knife, either way it would have a storey to tell if it could speak no doubt, certainly would not like to be on the sharp end of it !!

.

Jim McDougall · 24th May 2023, 07:46 PM

This is really an intriguing piece, as might be expected from the hidden arms locker of the Major

While it may be 19th century, it seems done in the manner of 18th century items, and here I would note the European fascination with exotica, especially 'oriental' which covered pretty much Middle East, India and the Orient.
Note the Chinese style motif on the ferrule.
The undulating blade of course recalls the keris as noted.
Small swords of the 18th century often had such Oriental motif known as 'chinoserie'. There were even Chinese artisans in Europe working in shops in the mounting and hilt decoration of these swords.

The wavy blade to me suggests more of a male attribution , more of the kind of a knife that would be 'shown off' as the inclination of mens fashion in weaponry.
As far as I have known, I have only heard of muff pistols (from womens hand warmers) but not familiar with the dagger term.

23rd May 2023, 02:03 AM	#1
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	small kris type blade dagger I have an idea where this one is from but am not certain, my thoughts are Austrisn or German end of the 19thc to 1920s, Victorian era I suppose. The blade is in very high polish, thick and like a razor along its cutting edge, the guard is nickel silver and the small ferrule with Greek fret repousse design on it is in 925 grade silver, the silver throat collar on the leather over wood sheath is in 925 grade silver, and sadly the silver end chape of the sheath is missing. Is it a mans knife of a ladies muff dagger for self protection ??? who knows, it is certainly a quality piece wherever if is from. size is just 9 inches long in sheath, the blade is 5 inches ,long and is oval section, can anybody place it for exact origin please ?. Snody Attached Images

23rd May 2023, 02:09 PM	#4
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	Ok very much for confirming my thuouts on it, thanks to you both German it is then, how to move it to the Euro section i'm not sure of, but sure someone will do it anyway. snody.

24th May 2023, 02:14 PM	#6
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	Go ahead Fernando.

24th May 2023, 06:13 PM	#8
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	Indeed , I would say so !! muff knife maybe, garter or stocking knife it could well be, property of a German lady of questionable night time repute's knife from the early Reeperbahn days of early 20thc Hamburg, or a German lady of the upper echelons self protection knife, either way it would have a storey to tell if it could speak no doubt, certainly would not like to be on the sharp end of it !! .

23rd May 2023, 06:02 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Hi Snody, For me it is German and need to get moved to the European section! Regards, Detlef

23rd May 2023, 08:54 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	So let's move it .

24th May 2023, 02:51 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,093	You mentioned a 'muff dagger' and that's what I was thinking. The 'soiled doves' of the American west carried small daggers like this strapped to their leg for use when a customer got unruly. Were it a little bigger, I'd say a gambler's boot dirk, but the size leads more to a concealed implement. No expert, just my 2 cents...

24th May 2023, 07:46 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	This is really an intriguing piece, as might be expected from the hidden arms locker of the Major While it may be 19th century, it seems done in the manner of 18th century items, and here I would note the European fascination with exotica, especially 'oriental' which covered pretty much Middle East, India and the Orient. Note the Chinese style motif on the ferrule. The undulating blade of course recalls the keris as noted. Small swords of the 18th century often had such Oriental motif known as 'chinoserie'. There were even Chinese artisans in Europe working in shops in the mounting and hilt decoration of these swords. The wavy blade to me suggests more of a male attribution , more of the kind of a knife that would be 'shown off' as the inclination of mens fashion in weaponry. As far as I have known, I have only heard of muff pistols (from womens hand warmers) but not familiar with the dagger term.