Palembang Keris for your comment

jwkiernan · 20th November 2013, 06:48 AM

Happy Wednesday! After a brief technical glitch (thanks Lee, Rick and David for resolving this) I am back! Several members have made the suggestion to break up the keris in the post "Recent Additions" by type/area...honestly I needed help with this...so thanks to Kai and David we will begin with the first offering... Two Palembang keris.

The first features an ivory ukiran (absolutely marvelously carved), a medak/selut of suassa(?). The length is 15" (all measurements from the gandik side of the blade from the top of the ganja).

The second offering has a ukiran of horn, medak/selut also a suassa (?). 12" in length.

As I post these over the coming days, I'd humbly as that you'd please help me to understand more about these wonderful blades. Example; are these called Palembang due to the type of sheath/wrangka they are housed (one of the only commonalities I see)? Is Palembang the area they are found?

I appreaciate all of your patience, assistance and expertise...but enough of that...lets see some keris!

A. G. Maisey · 20th November 2013, 08:15 AM

John, I think you might find that the hilt cup on the second keris is brass, possibly gold plated or gilded.

Palembang is in South Sumatra, it had and has long time political and cultural ties with the House of Mataram in Central Jawa, and was also influenced by Banten. Because of these associations the keris that come from Palembang very often have features that resemble either Banten keris, or Central Jawa keris.

"suwasa" (ngoko) or "suwaos"" ( krama) is low content gold alloy, supposedly anything under 14 carat. There are a lot of ways to spell this word, and there are other words for the same alloy. There is another alloy that is also called suwasa, and that is what we call in English "pinchbeck", the only way to tell the difference between pinchbeck and low carat gold is to get it tested by a jeweller.

Jean · 20th November 2013, 09:16 AM

John,
Your first kris has a blade with ganja iras (integrated with the blade) which is very common in South Sumatra. The ivory hilt is in one of the specific Jawa deman styles from Palembang and a masterpiece indeed.
The second kris has a rare hilt in gana style which apparently originates from South Sumatra also although I saw some specimens fitted on Javanese krisses.
Both blades would benefit from cleaning and staining.
Best regards

jwkiernan · 20th November 2013, 03:51 PM

[QUOTE=A. G. Maisey]John, I think you might find that the hilt cup on the second keris is brass, possibly gold plated or gilded.

Thanks Alan for the information...my first instinct on the second keris hilt cup was brass, but I truly wonder if it is plated...no tarnish, no evidence of tarnishing.

"Both blades would benefit from cleaning and staining."

Jean, thank you for your comments as well. I have read several things on this board about cleaning/staining keris blades...where does one get this done? Surely no place in the States? As far as the cleaning (nontraditional) once I received them they where all cleaned to stop/remove any active rust, wood and ivory all hydrated. They weren't horrible, but they hadn't been given any "love" for a while.

Thanks again for the information!

All my best,
John

David · 20th November 2013, 05:19 PM

I don't see any need to clean/stain the ivory hilted one.
I could stain the the other one for you John, but you might not get it back.

Both are lovely BTW.

Jean · 20th November 2013, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I don't see any need to clean/stain the ivory hilted one.

Well, the pictures are not very sharp but I seem to distinguish some black rust spots on the sorsoran and at the tip especially?
Regards

David · 20th November 2013, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Well, the pictures are not very sharp but I seem to distinguish some black rust spots on the sorsoran and at the tip especially?
Regards

Your eyes are sharper than mine Jean.

Even so, if some residual rust remains on this blade rust removal does not necessary mean restraining.

jwkiernan · 20th November 2013, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Well, the pictures are not very sharp but I seem to distinguish some black rust spots on the sorsoran and at the tip especially?
Regards

Jean, the original shots of these are super sharp but I had to resize them all to upload them.

Each blade that had any rust on them have been worked with steel wool and oil in those spots. I have seen several times folks post about "picking" rust...I even tried that...this black rust seems solid and stable...should the blades be soaked in WD-40 for a time?

I'll do just about anything to preserve these things!

David, I may take you up on the staining...up to the part of the blade not coming back!

Keep the info coming guys...I am learning a lot!

20th November 2013, 06:48 AM	#1
jwkiernan Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 37	Palembang Keris for your comment Happy Wednesday! After a brief technical glitch (thanks Lee, Rick and David for resolving this) I am back! Several members have made the suggestion to break up the keris in the post "Recent Additions" by type/area...honestly I needed help with this...so thanks to Kai and David we will begin with the first offering... Two Palembang keris. The first features an ivory ukiran (absolutely marvelously carved), a medak/selut of suassa(?). The length is 15" (all measurements from the gandik side of the blade from the top of the ganja). The second offering has a ukiran of horn, medak/selut also a suassa (?). 12" in length. As I post these over the coming days, I'd humbly as that you'd please help me to understand more about these wonderful blades. Example; are these called Palembang due to the type of sheath/wrangka they are housed (one of the only commonalities I see)? Is Palembang the area they are found? I appreaciate all of your patience, assistance and expertise...but enough of that...lets see some keris! Attached Images

20th November 2013, 08:15 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,889	John, I think you might find that the hilt cup on the second keris is brass, possibly gold plated or gilded. Palembang is in South Sumatra, it had and has long time political and cultural ties with the House of Mataram in Central Jawa, and was also influenced by Banten. Because of these associations the keris that come from Palembang very often have features that resemble either Banten keris, or Central Jawa keris. "suwasa" (ngoko) or "suwaos"" ( krama) is low content gold alloy, supposedly anything under 14 carat. There are a lot of ways to spell this word, and there are other words for the same alloy. There is another alloy that is also called suwasa, and that is what we call in English "pinchbeck", the only way to tell the difference between pinchbeck and low carat gold is to get it tested by a jeweller.

20th November 2013, 09:16 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	John, Your first kris has a blade with ganja iras (integrated with the blade) which is very common in South Sumatra. The ivory hilt is in one of the specific Jawa deman styles from Palembang and a masterpiece indeed. The second kris has a rare hilt in gana style which apparently originates from South Sumatra also although I saw some specimens fitted on Javanese krisses. Both blades would benefit from cleaning and staining. Best regards

20th November 2013, 03:51 PM	#4
jwkiernan Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 37	[QUOTE=A. G. Maisey]John, I think you might find that the hilt cup on the second keris is brass, possibly gold plated or gilded. Thanks Alan for the information...my first instinct on the second keris hilt cup was brass, but I truly wonder if it is plated...no tarnish, no evidence of tarnishing. "Both blades would benefit from cleaning and staining." Jean, thank you for your comments as well. I have read several things on this board about cleaning/staining keris blades...where does one get this done? Surely no place in the States? As far as the cleaning (nontraditional) once I received them they where all cleaned to stop/remove any active rust, wood and ivory all hydrated. They weren't horrible, but they hadn't been given any "love" for a while. Thanks again for the information! All my best, John

20th November 2013, 05:19 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,120	I don't see any need to clean/stain the ivory hilted one. I could stain the the other one for you John, but you might not get it back. Both are lovely BTW.