Help with French Sword

Cathey · 5th June 2020, 08:53 AM

Hi Guys

I picked up this sword recently and it was described to me as a 1780 pattern French General Officers sword. I can’t find it in the books I have on French swords and believe it to be later in any case. Can anyone shed some light on what this one actually is?

PS the sword has the letters S H . T at the top of the 32 5/16" blade.

Cheers Cathey

ulfberth · 5th June 2020, 11:02 AM

Hi Cathey,
the model was in use during the French first Empire period but still in use during the restoration period.
So its a French Officers dress sword between 1800 and 1820, because there are no lilies on the guard plate this on is probably First Empire = Napoleonic.
Kind regards
Ulfberth

corrado26 · 6th June 2020, 10:59 AM

Your sword has been made by Samuel Hoppe Frères à Solingen and was in use during the French July monarchy and Second Republic 1830-1852.
corrado26

ulfberth · 6th June 2020, 01:20 PM

The blade yes , the Guard is older.

Hotspur · 7th June 2020, 11:09 PM

I have a small contention regarding SH and SHF as Samuel Hoppe. Samuel Hoppe is listed later in the 19th century and definitely as displaying a beehive mark.

Contrarily and confirmed in other threads, SHF is for Simon Helvig&Sons, SH as Simon Helvig.

An adjacent thread here
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16549

The preponderance of 1820s and 1830s blades marked SHF without the beehive, to me, reads as the Helvig theory sticks. The French book not being the first, or last to have a differing opinion.

From Bezdek

"Samuel Hoppe & Sohn of Solingen was active between 1827-1861 (Bezdek:54) being Samuel Hoppe & Co. between 1861-1885 (Bezdek:54)"

So, that is not SH&F but rather clearly and in German, Sohn. The Feres or Fils and F of French notations Helvig. In my opinion anyway and I welcome more sources but as far back as my own studies go these past couple of decades, the Hoppe& Son(s?) and Co. marks are later than the Simon Helvig blades. A broad jump from the light b&g Helvig dress blades to the field infantry and cavalry swords known to Samuel Hoppe.

Cheers
GC

corrado26 · 8th June 2020, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotspur

SHF is for Simon Helvig&Sons, SH as Simon Helvig.

could you please explain me where the "F" of "SHF" is in "Helvig & Sons"

5th June 2020, 08:53 AM	#1
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	Help with French Sword Hi Guys I picked up this sword recently and it was described to me as a 1780 pattern French General Officers sword. I can’t find it in the books I have on French swords and believe it to be later in any case. Can anyone shed some light on what this one actually is? PS the sword has the letters S H . T at the top of the 32 5/16" blade. Cheers Cathey Attached Images

6th June 2020, 10:59 AM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Your sword has been made by Samuel Hoppe Frères à Solingen and was in use during the French July monarchy and Second Republic 1830-1852. corrado26 Attached Images

7th June 2020, 11:09 PM	#5
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 498	I have a small contention regarding SH and SHF as Samuel Hoppe. Samuel Hoppe is listed later in the 19th century and definitely as displaying a beehive mark. Contrarily and confirmed in other threads, SHF is for Simon Helvig&Sons, SH as Simon Helvig. An adjacent thread here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16549 The preponderance of 1820s and 1830s blades marked SHF without the beehive, to me, reads as the Helvig theory sticks. The French book not being the first, or last to have a differing opinion. From Bezdek "Samuel Hoppe & Sohn of Solingen was active between 1827-1861 (Bezdek:54) being Samuel Hoppe & Co. between 1861-1885 (Bezdek:54)" So, that is not SH&F but rather clearly and in German, Sohn. The Feres or Fils and F of French notations Helvig. In my opinion anyway and I welcome more sources but as far back as my own studies go these past couple of decades, the Hoppe& Son(s?) and Co. marks are later than the Simon Helvig blades. A broad jump from the light b&g Helvig dress blades to the field infantry and cavalry swords known to Samuel Hoppe. Cheers GC Last edited by Hotspur; 8th June 2020 at 03:14 PM.

5th June 2020, 11:02 AM	#2
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 400	Hi Cathey, the model was in use during the French first Empire period but still in use during the restoration period. So its a French Officers dress sword between 1800 and 1820, because there are no lilies on the guard plate this on is probably First Empire = Napoleonic. Kind regards Ulfberth

6th June 2020, 01:20 PM	#4
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 400	The blade yes , the Guard is older.