Newest Treasure Acquisition, The Most Magic Knife, Esoteric Secrets, Gematria,+,+,+

JoeCanada42 · 27th January 2023, 05:48 AM

The circumstances leading to me acquiring this could make a person believe in magic...

Arrived recently from France
Sold to me as 18c , Castle Hunting or Chef Knife
I inquired for more info and the seller from his source couldn't get any more info other then he though it was "Nogent".

to the best of my research
I think it may be a knife from chatellerault area.

there is a lot of symbolism to unpack I would start with the most obvious the 999, the Orphic egg and the Kolovrat.

I could use help figuring out any blade info, thoughts on age? origin? construction, style, etc..

I like to imagine it was made following all the rituals, on certain days with certain invocation, used by the likes of an early renaissance alchemist...

please standby I have many many photos, perhaps i will have to comeback and remove some if they cant be easily accommodated.

thanks for any and all help,

please enjoy the photos, and avoid and negative perceptions, I feel nothing satanic here to see, maybe pagan but that is very different. stay positive I think this was used for speaking to angels, nothing bad.. I personally think about the god Phanes.

JoeCanada42 · 27th January 2023, 05:50 AM

more photos

JoeCanada42 · 27th January 2023, 05:54 AM

again more photos not a duplicate post

JoeCanada42 · 27th January 2023, 05:58 AM

last of photos

Jim McDougall · 27th January 2023, 09:55 PM

This is most interesting Joe, and I wanted to try to enter some possibilities which hopefully will be recognized for simply identification purposes.

The reference to 'Nogent' mentioned is to the city in France known for production of cutlery and various bladed implements. There is a Musee de la Coutellerie there which might have information. In Levines 4th edition (1997,) I found no useful example in the comprehensive examples of knives.

It seems to be this is a considerably old knife, the blade seems to be reprofiled from a sword, and IMO it is more in the shape of a hunting knife. The 'fish tail' is unusual, and have not found any similar.

It does seem there is a potential for being the 'athame' type knife of occult practices, as these are notably with black hilt as seen here. As far as I know there are no prescribed forms for these, but the unusual pommel and the equally unusual symbols on the grip seem to augment to notion.

While the gold color device seems more a baroque aesthetic it could very well be an interpretation of an esoteric sigil. The circular cartouche seems to represent some type of bird in a fylfot configuration, representing circular or repetitive motion dynamically, which does relate to certain alchemical type symbolism. This seems to be an innocuous example, while of course there are other types of this device more sinister.

I do not see any reason to read any of those connotations into this and see this as an intriguing example of a repurposed old sword blade, quite long ago fashioned into this mysterious knife probably in France.

I would bring into view the author Gerald Gardner who became well known in modern occult in the 1950s, and whose interest in vintage edged weapons was focused on the keris. His knowledge and understanding of these kinds of properties were instrumental it would seem in those of these kinds of knives.
The numeric 999 is indeed supposed to be an angelic number, which no doubt certain proponents might see as the obverse number.

I hope this example can remain observed objectively as it is an aspect of edged weaponry seldom ever touched on. It is well known that many swords of antiquity and with noted use in historic campaigns often ended up in Masonic context in lodges, and other fraternal groups. I would consider perhaps this blade might have had similar circumstance.

JoeCanada42 · 28th January 2023, 06:11 AM

thanks Jim for Your interest and research it means a lot
I guess part of the magic could be people interpret the symbols differently
now when I look at what I called the kolovrat, I can see some other stuff..
it could be and earth symbol, but also I see spiraling wind gusts, flames of fire, and rain or waves, it could be an abstract representing all the elements...

27th January 2023, 05:48 AM	#1
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Newest Treasure Acquisition, The Most Magic Knife, Esoteric Secrets, Gematria,+,+,+ The circumstances leading to me acquiring this could make a person believe in magic... Arrived recently from France Sold to me as 18c , Castle Hunting or Chef Knife I inquired for more info and the seller from his source couldn't get any more info other then he though it was "Nogent". to the best of my research I think it may be a knife from chatellerault area. there is a lot of symbolism to unpack I would start with the most obvious the 999, the Orphic egg and the Kolovrat. I could use help figuring out any blade info, thoughts on age? origin? construction, style, etc.. I like to imagine it was made following all the rituals, on certain days with certain invocation, used by the likes of an early renaissance alchemist... please standby I have many many photos, perhaps i will have to comeback and remove some if they cant be easily accommodated. thanks for any and all help, please enjoy the photos, and avoid and negative perceptions, I feel nothing satanic here to see, maybe pagan but that is very different. stay positive I think this was used for speaking to angels, nothing bad.. I personally think about the god Phanes. Attached Images Last edited by JoeCanada42; 27th January 2023 at 10:31 PM.

27th January 2023, 05:50 AM	#2
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	more photos Attached Images Last edited by JoeCanada42; 27th January 2023 at 10:32 PM.

27th January 2023, 05:54 AM	#3
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	again more photos not a duplicate post Attached Images Last edited by JoeCanada42; 27th January 2023 at 10:32 PM.

27th January 2023, 05:58 AM	#4
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	last of photos Attached Images Last edited by JoeCanada42; 27th January 2023 at 06:53 AM.

27th January 2023, 09:55 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	This is most interesting Joe, and I wanted to try to enter some possibilities which hopefully will be recognized for simply identification purposes. The reference to 'Nogent' mentioned is to the city in France known for production of cutlery and various bladed implements. There is a Musee de la Coutellerie there which might have information. In Levines 4th edition (1997,) I found no useful example in the comprehensive examples of knives. It seems to be this is a considerably old knife, the blade seems to be reprofiled from a sword, and IMO it is more in the shape of a hunting knife. The 'fish tail' is unusual, and have not found any similar. It does seem there is a potential for being the 'athame' type knife of occult practices, as these are notably with black hilt as seen here. As far as I know there are no prescribed forms for these, but the unusual pommel and the equally unusual symbols on the grip seem to augment to notion. While the gold color device seems more a baroque aesthetic it could very well be an interpretation of an esoteric sigil. The circular cartouche seems to represent some type of bird in a fylfot configuration, representing circular or repetitive motion dynamically, which does relate to certain alchemical type symbolism. This seems to be an innocuous example, while of course there are other types of this device more sinister. I do not see any reason to read any of those connotations into this and see this as an intriguing example of a repurposed old sword blade, quite long ago fashioned into this mysterious knife probably in France. I would bring into view the author Gerald Gardner who became well known in modern occult in the 1950s, and whose interest in vintage edged weapons was focused on the keris. His knowledge and understanding of these kinds of properties were instrumental it would seem in those of these kinds of knives. The numeric 999 is indeed supposed to be an angelic number, which no doubt certain proponents might see as the obverse number. I hope this example can remain observed objectively as it is an aspect of edged weaponry seldom ever touched on. It is well known that many swords of antiquity and with noted use in historic campaigns often ended up in Masonic context in lodges, and other fraternal groups. I would consider perhaps this blade might have had similar circumstance.

28th January 2023, 06:11 AM	#6
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	thanks Jim for Your interest and research it means a lot I guess part of the magic could be people interpret the symbols differently now when I look at what I called the kolovrat, I can see some other stuff.. it could be and earth symbol, but also I see spiraling wind gusts, flames of fire, and rain or waves, it could be an abstract representing all the elements...