Little keris for comment and a few question

Sajen · 9th May 2024, 01:18 PM

A while back I got this little keris (patrem?) in a mixed lot.
It's a pretty well made piece in my humble opinion and all seems made together and fits pretty well.
My questions:
-- Would you describe it as patrem?
-- Has anyone seen before such a joint between gandar and wrongko?
-- Would you restore the broken piece from the gandar?

Thanks in advance!

A. G. Maisey · 9th May 2024, 01:47 PM

How long is the blade, how long overall?

Looking at the two keris, side by side, I'd probably call this a patrem, provided the other keris is normal.

If requested a m'ranggi will use whatever means & joints work best to make something functional.

Have I ever seen precisely the same joint as this?

I don't know, I've seen very many & I do not remember them all, but if the m'ranggi decided that joint would work best, that's what he would use.

Sajen · 9th May 2024, 01:58 PM

Thank you Alan! Yes, the other keris is of normal size.
Forgot to give the size! The keris is 31,5 cm long with handle, the blade without pesi is 24 cm long.

Regards,
Detlef

David · 9th May 2024, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Thank you Alan! Yes, the other keris is of normal size.
Forgot to give the size! The keris is 31,5 cm long with handle, the blade without pesi is 24 cm long.

Others might have a different gage, but i tend to consider any Javanese keris under 10 inches to be a strong contender for patrem status. At 24cm that puts your blade at 9.45 inches, so yes, i would call this a patrem.
To my eyes this joint of the wrongko is rather unique. I can't remember ever seeing it before. It is a shame that the gandar broke off at the bottom. The pelet wood is quite nice and if you have anyone available with the skills creating a new gandar should not be too difficult.

Sajen · 9th May 2024, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Others might have a different gage, but i tend to consider any Javanese keris under 10 inches to be a strong contender for patrem status. At 24cm that puts your blade at 9.45 inches, so yes, i would call this a patrem.
To my eyes this joint of the wrongko is rather unique. I can't remember ever seeing it before. It is a shame that the gandar broke off at the bottom. The pelet wood is quite nice and if you have anyone available with the skills creating a new gandar should not be too difficult.

Thank you David! I also would call it patrem but wanted to know what others think.
Like you I never before have seen such a joint. As you can see it's very well done.
And like you I like the pelet wrongko which shows his full beauty after a good clean.
I will see how it's possible to repair the scabbard.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 9th May 2024, 10:32 PM

Yes Detlef, I believe most people would call it a patrem.

However, strictly speaking, a keris patrem is a keris specifically for a woman.

We need to remember that in olden times, when a keris was made for a man, the length & some other features of the keris were made specifically for the man.

There were some very small men in Jawa, & this applies until now. I remember that during the 1970's I could walk into a crowd of people, say, somewhere like a market, and look over the heads of the vast bulk of people in that crowd. I stand 5'8" (1.727m) tall.

Re the joint.

A similar joint to this is often used in fixing a buntut to the tip of a gandar. A good m'ranggi can produce just about anything that the occasion demands. If the owner of the keris wanted to preserve as much of the old scabbard as possible, the m'ranggi probably decided to make the joint in this form, he might never have made this form previously.

9th May 2024, 01:18 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,788	Little keris for comment and a few question A while back I got this little keris (patrem?) in a mixed lot. It's a pretty well made piece in my humble opinion and all seems made together and fits pretty well. My questions: -- Would you describe it as patrem? -- Has anyone seen before such a joint between gandar and wrongko? -- Would you restore the broken piece from the gandar? Thanks in advance! Attached Images

9th May 2024, 01:47 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	How long is the blade, how long overall? Looking at the two keris, side by side, I'd probably call this a patrem, provided the other keris is normal. If requested a m'ranggi will use whatever means & joints work best to make something functional. Have I ever seen precisely the same joint as this? I don't know, I've seen very many & I do not remember them all, but if the m'ranggi decided that joint would work best, that's what he would use.

9th May 2024, 01:58 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,788	Thank you Alan! Yes, the other keris is of normal size. Forgot to give the size! The keris is 31,5 cm long with handle, the blade without pesi is 24 cm long. Regards, Detlef

9th May 2024, 10:32 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	Yes Detlef, I believe most people would call it a patrem. However, strictly speaking, a keris patrem is a keris specifically for a woman. We need to remember that in olden times, when a keris was made for a man, the length & some other features of the keris were made specifically for the man. There were some very small men in Jawa, & this applies until now. I remember that during the 1970's I could walk into a crowd of people, say, somewhere like a market, and look over the heads of the vast bulk of people in that crowd. I stand 5'8" (1.727m) tall. Re the joint. A similar joint to this is often used in fixing a buntut to the tip of a gandar. A good m'ranggi can produce just about anything that the occasion demands. If the owner of the keris wanted to preserve as much of the old scabbard as possible, the m'ranggi probably decided to make the joint in this form, he might never have made this form previously.