Halberd head questions (inscription/date/mark)

[shayde78]

Hello everyone - I hope you're doing well!

I recently acquired the halberd head pictured below. I am using the seller's photos (as a quick glance at any of my past threads will demonstrate the sorry state of my camera and the poor quality of my photos!). However, I do have the object in hand and can answer questions, take additional photos. I am also including measurements, but can offer additional ones, if needed.

First, my overall impressions - I purchased this thinking it was likely a locally made American head. Although it looked older, the head clearly has '1808' inscribed upon it, so I figured it might be early 19th century to conform to that date. As such, if figured I would be getting something flimsy and ceremonial.

However, this is anything but. It is solidly constructed, has real heft, and seems well forged (if not fancily finished or adorned). This is why I'm confused. Would something with these characteristics and of this form be manufactured in 1808?

Speaking of the inscription, it is fairly clear in the photos, but here is a transcription:
On the 'Obverse' side - HARTMANS DOREER - and what appears to be a maker's mark, possibly 'IICK'

On the 'Reverse' side - GEMEINTE:ANO:1808 - there are a cluster of three dots at both before and after this line.

Also, all the 'N's are reversed. There also almost seem to be umlauts over the 'N' in 'ANO', which make no sense, unless this is a vowel that looks like an 'N' ('U'?)

GENEINTE seems to be German for commune/community. Perhaps 'Hartmans Doreer' is a founder or name of a new community that was founded in 1808, maybe in the new American nation? Per the seller, this is from an estate in Pennsylvania. The owner was a film actor and traveled a bit, so it may not have any connection to this part of the world, but I mention the little I know of the provenance in case it helps.

Measurements:
Weight: 1lb 9.875oz
Overall length: 42cm (16.5") [this includes the 5cm of the one partial languet]
Width at widest point (tip of beak to bottom tip of crescent): 17.5cm (6 7/8")
Length of 'spike': 19cm (7.5")
Length of crescent (tip to tip, NOT conforming to curve): 12cm (4 7/8")
Length of beak (underside to the curly bit): 6.5cm (2.5")

Thickness at the central intersection of the spike, crescent, and beak: 12mm
Thickness of the remaining partial langet: 5mm

So there you go - what do you think??

As always, I appreciate each of you for the feedback you provide, not just on my posts, but on each post in this forum. This is my classroom, and you are all great teachers!
-Rob

[cornelistromp]

hartman(n)sdorfer means someone from the village of hartmannsdorf a place in germany , saxony near Chemnitz.

Gemeinte ( gemeinde) means commune/community.

best,

[shayde78]

Thanks for that information, Jasper!
I've been doing some digging, trying to find out if the date of 1808 has any significance to the region. All I could find is that Saxony allied with Napoleon in 1807. Perhaps someone else might have some insights regarding what was going on in the region at the time.

I do believe this is an authentic piece, albeit from maybe 2 centuries before the date inscribed (if it is even meant to be a date). I found an article that puts forth a typology of halberds that I thought might be of interest to anyone coming across this thread in the future AND, perhaps, to inform the discussion about this piece.
The article it titled: 'A New Halberd Typology (1500-1800): Based on the Collection of the National Military Museum, The Netherlands'
Author: Casper Johann van Dijk
Article attached, and link follows
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...he_Netherlands

Using this typology, I believe the item in question is Class III.B with socket type sVa. The mark listed as Mark:M.8 seems of a similar type to that found in the pictured item. Page 15 of the article lists timeframes attributed to certain classes, but the class of this halberd seems to be absent from this chart. Still, a date of 1550-1625 seems consistent with the other examples.

Of course, this could be something created much later to look like an older weapon. I'm still very curious to get more impressions.

[shayde78]

Including the figures/pictures from the article (as not everyone will access the PDF). Those who have seen some of my other posts will know that I appreciate the author's use of period artwork to fix the dates of some of the halberd forms.

I hope this information is useful to others

ALL CREDIT TO THE AUTHOR:
van Dijk, Casper. (2020). A New Halberd Typology (1500-1800): Based on the Collection of the National Military Museum, The Netherlands. Arms & Armour. 17. 1-26. 10.1080/17416124.2020.1728905.

[fernando]

Nice material, Rob; thanks for sharing.
So ... the question remains whether your example is as antique as per its model or a whole later commemorative piece.
Say, are all blade edges sharp (ened) ?

[shayde78]

Hi Fernando- thanks for weighing in! I'm glad you like to material I posted.

To answer your question; Yes, the edges are sharp, with that persistent edge I noted on my authentic Pappenheim. No modern bevels. And certainly not razor sharp, but a definite serviceable edge.