old sabre

Martin Lubojacky · 24th October 2017, 11:07 AM

I have never seen this kind of Abyssinian sabre in "photographs with people". I would say it is neither gurade, nor shotel. It is much shorter (the example in the picture is 68 cms long) and also notably heavier (thick blade)and the pommel has always this particular shape. My idea is - either old type which was not photographed too much, or comming from the south (like Sidamo area). I am also enclosing the old pictures of the short sabre of the King Sahle Selassie and one old engraving of Abyssinian cavalryman with similar short sabre.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th October 2017, 07:45 PM

The problem is that the evidence is a sketch thus up to the artist what he presented... in this case a possible Shotel either badly drawn with the forte missing ..or is this the result of a snapped sword redesigned more as a long dagger? The blade on the exhibit could be a straight Solingen ...imported then bent into a curve.

Iain · 24th October 2017, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The blade on the exhibit could be a straight Solingen ...imported then bent into a curve.

That would require re-tempering the blade and is utterly inconsistent with the characteristics of the blade.

This blade was obviously forged in the shape seen here. A lovely piece Martin, I agree this seems to be part of a subset of shorter curved blades. I find the thickness of the blade quite attractive an obviously well made and old item. The sketch of the king's sword seems to follow a similar profile, a pity the blade is not seen in the illustration.

Martin Lubojacky · 24th October 2017, 08:13 PM

Ibrahiim, thank you for the first reaction. What I am 100 % sure: The blade is local, not imported, not made of snapped shotel. It is short, but classical stabbing with it is not too much practical due to its curvature. Except of one case: "to stab from behind". Because of its weight, I think, it is fatal slashing weapon. I already saw more sabres like this. (- as far as the design they are muchness and the length varries +- 5 cms)

Martin Lubojacky · 24th October 2017, 08:22 PM

Yes, I know classical shotels. Nevertheless their blade is always lighter, flatter and still (enerally) longer. There is also always difference it the hilt and style of pommel ...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th October 2017, 08:30 PM

This is very interesting Martin, On looking carefully at the sketch I note all three men in front are wearing a weapon like this. Perhaps this is an entirely new weapon?

Martin Lubojacky · 24th October 2017, 09:11 PM

I wouldn´t say new ... Nevertheless this specific form was not discussed. I wonder if favourers of Abyssinian staff (Roanoa ?) could add something or post photos ...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th October 2017, 09:04 PM

This is very interesting Martin, On looking carefully at the sketch I note all three men in front are wearing a weapon like this. Perhaps this is an entirely new weapon?

On the other hand ~ It is interesting trying to fathom how this was used except for the fact it looks vicious and it could be stuck into someone...it seems over curved... but on looking at related battle fields was this a special weapon to hamstring horses...? see http://www.victorianmilitarysociety....e-19th-century

Quote" On the way to relieve General Gordon at Khartoum, Count Gleichen (Guards Camel Corps) after the battle of Abu Klea, described the native weapons lying on the battle field thus:

"Arms of all sorts and broken banner-staves were scattered over the field; spears in hundreds, some of enormous length, javelins, knobkerries, hatchets, swords and knives, I even found a Birmingham bill-hook, with the trade-mark on it, in an Arab's hand, sharp as a razor and covered with blood and hair: how it got there I know not, so I confiscated it for the use of our mess."Unquote.

of knives it said ~

Quote" Knives offer the greatest variety in shape, decoration and materials used. They were double-edged and maintained at razor sharpness. The hooked blades were for hamstringing horses and transport animals, and were used with great effect against the 10th and 19th Hussars at El Teb."Unquote.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th October 2017, 08:05 PM

The problem is that the evidence is a sketch thus up to the artist what he presented... in this case a possible Shotel either badly drawn with the forte missing ..or is this the result of a snapped sword redesigned more as a long dagger? The blade on the exhibit could be a straight Solingen ...imported then bent into a curve.

Please see below and where I couldnt get a print simply place the string into search

24th October 2017, 11:07 AM	#1
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	old sabre I have never seen this kind of Abyssinian sabre in "photographs with people". I would say it is neither gurade, nor shotel. It is much shorter (the example in the picture is 68 cms long) and also notably heavier (thick blade)and the pommel has always this particular shape. My idea is - either old type which was not photographed too much, or comming from the south (like Sidamo area). I am also enclosing the old pictures of the short sabre of the King Sahle Selassie and one old engraving of Abyssinian cavalryman with similar short sabre. Attached Images

24th October 2017, 07:45 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The problem is that the evidence is a sketch thus up to the artist what he presented... in this case a possible Shotel either badly drawn with the forte missing ..or is this the result of a snapped sword redesigned more as a long dagger? The blade on the exhibit could be a straight Solingen ...imported then bent into a curve.

24th October 2017, 08:13 PM	#4
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Ibrahiim, thank you for the first reaction. What I am 100 % sure: The blade is local, not imported, not made of snapped shotel. It is short, but classical stabbing with it is not too much practical due to its curvature. Except of one case: "to stab from behind". Because of its weight, I think, it is fatal slashing weapon. I already saw more sabres like this. (- as far as the design they are muchness and the length varries +- 5 cms)

24th October 2017, 08:22 PM	#5
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Yes, I know classical shotels. Nevertheless their blade is always lighter, flatter and still (enerally) longer. There is also always difference it the hilt and style of pommel ...

24th October 2017, 08:30 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	This is very interesting Martin, On looking carefully at the sketch I note all three men in front are wearing a weapon like this. Perhaps this is an entirely new weapon?

24th October 2017, 09:11 PM	#7
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	I wouldn´t say new ... Nevertheless this specific form was not discussed. I wonder if favourers of Abyssinian staff (Roanoa ?) could add something or post photos ...

24th October 2017, 09:04 PM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	This is very interesting Martin, On looking carefully at the sketch I note all three men in front are wearing a weapon like this. Perhaps this is an entirely new weapon? On the other hand ~ It is interesting trying to fathom how this was used except for the fact it looks vicious and it could be stuck into someone...it seems over curved... but on looking at related battle fields was this a special weapon to hamstring horses...? see http://www.victorianmilitarysociety....e-19th-century Quote" On the way to relieve General Gordon at Khartoum, Count Gleichen (Guards Camel Corps) after the battle of Abu Klea, described the native weapons lying on the battle field thus: "Arms of all sorts and broken banner-staves were scattered over the field; spears in hundreds, some of enormous length, javelins, knobkerries, hatchets, swords and knives, I even found a Birmingham bill-hook, with the trade-mark on it, in an Arab's hand, sharp as a razor and covered with blood and hair: how it got there I know not, so I confiscated it for the use of our mess."Unquote. of knives it said ~ Quote" Knives offer the greatest variety in shape, decoration and materials used. They were double-edged and maintained at razor sharpness. The hooked blades were for hamstringing horses and transport animals, and were used with great effect against the 10th and 19th Hussars at El Teb."Unquote.