Help please. Japanese Gunto (Genuine ? ) with battlefield scabbard.

katana · 23rd May 2011, 10:48 PM

Hi,
can anyone please help with a new aquisition, what I believe to be a genuine Gunto. Saya is wooden with leather cover (type 98 ?) single suspension ring. The blade seems better than average quality and has obviously been re-fitted with this latest handle.

No tsuba, seppa or habaki
Kissaki looks reasonable, there seems to be some evidence of forging....in places looks almost straight grained (Masame ?) No obvious harmon not even an oil quenched one, but the blade has many scratches and is out of polish. The blade spine (mune ?) appears to be Ihori ie inverted 'V' profile.

The tang I believe is Futsu and the tang-tip Kurijiri.

Blade tip to 'step' (just before the tang) 65cm OAL 85cms Widest point 30mm approx. 3.5 mm thick.

Plenty of pictures,....can any one confirm this is Gunto, could the blade be older ? all comments gratefully received, thank you

David

PS I've just noticed on the picture of the tang there could be (very faint) a signature ??

Battara · 24th May 2011, 01:36 AM

Well it could be a true nihonto according to the 3 holes in the tang. Condition rough however and would need major restoration (polish, etc.). Getting a tang rubbing of the Japanese characters would also be helpful for translation.

katana · 24th May 2011, 01:01 PM

Hi Batarra

,
I have tried chalk dust and a 'rubbing' but to no avail . I am beginning to think that the signature is nothing more than a combination of marks,patina, a trick of the light and rust .... it really only seems to have been 'indicated' in the picture.

The blade may be nihonto, but at the very least it seems to have some quality. The sword was stored away for many years and the edge is still quite sharp. I am wondering whether it would be worth doing a 'window etch' ....would this show the hada (if any) and hamon ??

The mounts seem crude for a reasonable blade ....I am sure this sword has great stories to tell....

Regards David

Battara · 25th May 2011, 12:11 AM

A window polish might not be a bad idea. Sometimes good and family blades were placed in "crude" mounts when being brought into the combat arena.

katana · 25th May 2011, 04:54 PM

Cleaned an area on the blade with very fine wet and dry paper using a very fine 1020 grade then (even finer) 2040 grade, lubricated with some olive oil.

First thing that was noticeable is there is a Hamon and its not a Chinese acid etched one !!! Its not regular but is a fine colour change in the steel

I also think there is 'activity' in the blade....impossible to photograph....but when reflecting direct sunlight the cleaned area glistens and sparkles...hard to explain but the blade seems to come to life as you gentle 'angle' it in the sunlight.... like it is covered in very fine glitter ...but when you look at the blade 'staight on' the 'metallic' sheen is gone

....not explaining this very well but hoping someone might understand the 'rambles' of this madman

There is a small, but noticeable, forging flaw which could explain why, if the blade is of some quality, it was not signed ??

Not certain what to do now...should I etch the newly cleaned area ????

I would be grateful for any advice, help or comments

Regards David

laEspadaAncha · 25th May 2011, 05:10 PM

Hi David,

Fuller & Gregory cover this variant of late-war production, leather-covered shin-gunto, which according to them, "may be encountered without tsuba or kabuto-gane." These late-war variants were invariably of poor construction. The shrunken leather scabbard cover looks right for the age & pattern. I do find the three mekugi ana to be a little odd and "out of scope" IMO.

Regards,

Chris

23rd May 2011, 10:48 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Help please. Japanese Gunto (Genuine ? ) with battlefield scabbard. Hi, can anyone please help with a new aquisition, what I believe to be a genuine Gunto. Saya is wooden with leather cover (type 98 ?) single suspension ring. The blade seems better than average quality and has obviously been re-fitted with this latest handle. No tsuba, seppa or habaki Kissaki looks reasonable, there seems to be some evidence of forging....in places looks almost straight grained (Masame ?) No obvious harmon not even an oil quenched one, but the blade has many scratches and is out of polish. The blade spine (mune ?) appears to be Ihori ie inverted 'V' profile. The tang I believe is Futsu and the tang-tip Kurijiri. Blade tip to 'step' (just before the tang) 65cm OAL 85cms Widest point 30mm approx. 3.5 mm thick. Plenty of pictures,....can any one confirm this is Gunto, could the blade be older ? all comments gratefully received, thank you David PS I've just noticed on the picture of the tang there could be (very faint) a signature ?? Attached Images

24th May 2011, 01:01 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Batarra , I have tried chalk dust and a 'rubbing' but to no avail . I am beginning to think that the signature is nothing more than a combination of marks,patina, a trick of the light and rust .... it really only seems to have been 'indicated' in the picture. The blade may be nihonto, but at the very least it seems to have some quality. The sword was stored away for many years and the edge is still quite sharp. I am wondering whether it would be worth doing a 'window etch' ....would this show the hada (if any) and hamon ?? The mounts seem crude for a reasonable blade ....I am sure this sword has great stories to tell.... Regards David Attached Images

24th May 2011, 01:36 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Well it could be a true nihonto according to the 3 holes in the tang. Condition rough however and would need major restoration (polish, etc.). Getting a tang rubbing of the Japanese characters would also be helpful for translation.

25th May 2011, 12:11 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	A window polish might not be a bad idea. Sometimes good and family blades were placed in "crude" mounts when being brought into the combat arena.

25th May 2011, 04:54 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Cleaned an area on the blade with very fine wet and dry paper using a very fine 1020 grade then (even finer) 2040 grade, lubricated with some olive oil. First thing that was noticeable is there is a Hamon and its not a Chinese acid etched one !!! Its not regular but is a fine colour change in the steel I also think there is 'activity' in the blade....impossible to photograph....but when reflecting direct sunlight the cleaned area glistens and sparkles...hard to explain but the blade seems to come to life as you gentle 'angle' it in the sunlight.... like it is covered in very fine glitter ...but when you look at the blade 'staight on' the 'metallic' sheen is gone ....not explaining this very well but hoping someone might understand the 'rambles' of this madman There is a small, but noticeable, forging flaw which could explain why, if the blade is of some quality, it was not signed ?? Not certain what to do now...should I etch the newly cleaned area ???? I would be grateful for any advice, help or comments Regards David

25th May 2011, 05:10 PM	#6
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi David, Fuller & Gregory cover this variant of late-war production, leather-covered shin-gunto, which according to them, "may be encountered without tsuba or kabuto-gane." These late-war variants were invariably of poor construction. The shrunken leather scabbard cover looks right for the age & pattern. I do find the three mekugi ana to be a little odd and "out of scope" IMO. Regards, Chris