PALEMBANG HILT AND KERIS

ganjawulung · 15th May 2010, 07:04 PM

I have a problem with this Palembang keris and hilt. All I want to do is to clean the black-rusty blade with "kelapa" (coconut) husk. But unfortunately, the hilt is fixed firmly to the pesi. Too firm, and not possible for you to open or even to turn the hilt with your bare hand...

What would you suggest me to do: (1) Must I open the hilt first (2) but how to open such firm fixation? Or (3) just submerge all -- blade and hilt -- to the "blandongan" full with coconut husk? (4) Or clean the blade, without unfix the hilt? How?

Thanks in advance for your advice,

GANJAWULUNG

Sajen · 15th May 2010, 09:10 PM

Hello Ganjawulung,

do you have tried to heat the blade? Most of the time I have had success by this. Heat the blade and try careful to move the hilt. Sometimes you have to repeat this many times until the hilt become incoherent.

Moshah · 15th May 2010, 09:20 PM

Salam pak ganja,

Could u post some close up pix of that lovely hilt?

Is it ivory?

kai · 15th May 2010, 10:00 PM

Hello Pak Ganja,

Beautiful hilt - very expressive fangs! Sure looks ivory.

The hilt could be still fixed with resin - heat will easily do to remove the blade.

The pesi could also be heavily corroded and rust holding the hilt in place. Although there is a chance of damage, it would IMHO still be better to remove it, especially before soaking it since water and rust won't do any good and there's a chance that the hilt may get cracked from accumulating rust eventually.

Are there any cracks visible close the hilt's base? If not, it should be pretty safe to apply gentle heat to the sorsoran area (holding the hilt/selut with a heat-resistant glove helps to avoid heating the hilt). When hot, gently try to twist the hilt. If it doesn't move, let it cool completely and reheat/cool several times. I'm sure you've utilized this procedure quite a few times already...

Regards,
Kai

ganjawulung · 15th May 2010, 11:51 PM

Thanks Detlef, Moshah and Kai,

For this time being, I still keep it like it is. With the hilt firmly fixed. IMHO, it is not ivory but "duyung" or dugong hilt. You may look at the different brownish and yellowish colour of it. Images below, are different views of this hilt. The size, it seems bigger than usual...

I will try the last step to open the hilt. Then, what would you suggest the way to clean the blade without unfixing the hilt, please?

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 16th May 2010, 12:27 AM

Pak Ganja, removal of a firmly fixed hilt is not usually a problem.

If you use a candle or small kerosene lamp for the heat source, there is no possibility of doing damage to the hilt, provided you are reasonably careful.

I suggest that you should work with bare hands, so that you can feel how hot the blade and hilt become during the process, this will safeguard against over heating.

I can understand your caution with attempts to remove the hilt on this keris. I have had two Palembang tangs break while attempting to remove a rusted on hilt. I suspect that perhaps the adhesive that they used to use in that area may have had a corrosive effect.

If this were my keris I would try the heat first, but I would not exert excessive force in trying to twist it off.

If you are bound and determined not to remove the hilt, the blade can be cleaned by repeated brushing with a mild acid, and rinse with water. Freshly squeezed lime juice will do it.

It would probably be a good idea to coat the selut with nail polish, and to wrap the hilt with plastic cling wrap before you start. The nail polish will come off easily with acetone, when you finish the job.

kai · 23rd May 2010, 08:14 AM

Quote:

IMHO, it is not ivory but "duyung" or dugong hilt.

Forgot to comment earlier: Ivory is a general term and includes other tooth from animals like dugong, walrus, hippotamus, etc.

P.S.: It would be great if you could invite more Indonesian keris collectors to our little warung kopi! We all realize that the language barrier can be a challenge. Every contribution would be valuable and appreciated though!

BTW, are there any good translation services like babelfish that cover English to Bahasa Indonesia or Malay?

Regards,
Kai

Unkiemonk · 16th September 2011, 05:41 PM

Hi all,
Hoping this thread may find some new activity as it touches on carving styles of the Lampung region. I acquired what I believe to be a late 18th century south Sumatran war canoe prow some time ago and have had some degree of trouble confirming its place of manufacture. After stumbling across this thread and references to hilts of the Lampung region in Gaspard de Narval’s ‘Ukiran’, the stylistic similarities between the prow and the Jawa Demam hilts of Lampung are the closest I have yet identified. To me, the spiral eyes and wing motif are the most similar stylistic traits to that seen on the Lampung hilts, though this may be way off the mark.The shortage of texts on Lampung carving styles/motifs has left me a little frustrated, so I was hoping for any and all suggestions or thoughts on the prow, including suggested reading.

Any thoughts on tribal origin, motif (Garuda?), symbolism, type of timber (Teak?), or age, would be greatly appreciated. Some incised decoration depicting a bull/buffalo, centipede and possibly a scorpion appear on the neck of the prow (unsure of their symbolic meaning).
Many thanks,

Unk

[IMG]www.flickr.com/photos/67622735@N06/6152721025/[/IMG]

David · 18th September 2011, 06:07 PM

Oh, i see you already saw this thread.

I believe most of these hilts are either Palembang or Cirebon, not Lampung.
As for you attachments, they need to be added directly to this site via our Manage Attachments button. Thanks...

Rick · 20th September 2011, 01:29 AM

^^^
This .
We need pictures for the archive; not links .

Links die and then the thread becomes useless .

ganjawulung · 5th October 2011, 04:33 AM

15th May 2010, 07:04 PM	#1
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	PALEMBANG HILT AND KERIS I have a problem with this Palembang keris and hilt. All I want to do is to clean the black-rusty blade with "kelapa" (coconut) husk. But unfortunately, the hilt is fixed firmly to the pesi. Too firm, and not possible for you to open or even to turn the hilt with your bare hand... What would you suggest me to do: (1) Must I open the hilt first (2) but how to open such firm fixation? Or (3) just submerge all -- blade and hilt -- to the "blandongan" full with coconut husk? (4) Or clean the blade, without unfix the hilt? How? Thanks in advance for your advice, GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

15th May 2010, 11:51 PM	#5
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Thanks Detlef, Moshah and Kai, For this time being, I still keep it like it is. With the hilt firmly fixed. IMHO, it is not ivory but "duyung" or dugong hilt. You may look at the different brownish and yellowish colour of it. Images below, are different views of this hilt. The size, it seems bigger than usual... I will try the last step to open the hilt. Then, what would you suggest the way to clean the blade without unfixing the hilt, please? GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

18th September 2011, 06:07 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Oh, i see you already saw this thread. I believe most of these hilts are either Palembang or Cirebon, not Lampung. As for you attachments, they need to be added directly to this site via our Manage Attachments button. Thanks... Last edited by David; 19th September 2011 at 10:01 PM.

5th October 2011, 04:33 AM	#11
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	More display More on Palembang hulu and keris... Attached Images

15th May 2010, 09:10 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Hello Ganjawulung, do you have tried to heat the blade? Most of the time I have had success by this. Heat the blade and try careful to move the hilt. Sometimes you have to repeat this many times until the hilt become incoherent.

15th May 2010, 09:20 PM	#3
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	Salam pak ganja, Could u post some close up pix of that lovely hilt? Is it ivory?

15th May 2010, 10:00 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Pak Ganja, Beautiful hilt - very expressive fangs! Sure looks ivory. The hilt could be still fixed with resin - heat will easily do to remove the blade. The pesi could also be heavily corroded and rust holding the hilt in place. Although there is a chance of damage, it would IMHO still be better to remove it, especially before soaking it since water and rust won't do any good and there's a chance that the hilt may get cracked from accumulating rust eventually. Are there any cracks visible close the hilt's base? If not, it should be pretty safe to apply gentle heat to the sorsoran area (holding the hilt/selut with a heat-resistant glove helps to avoid heating the hilt). When hot, gently try to twist the hilt. If it doesn't move, let it cool completely and reheat/cool several times. I'm sure you've utilized this procedure quite a few times already... Regards, Kai

16th May 2010, 12:27 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Pak Ganja, removal of a firmly fixed hilt is not usually a problem. If you use a candle or small kerosene lamp for the heat source, there is no possibility of doing damage to the hilt, provided you are reasonably careful. I suggest that you should work with bare hands, so that you can feel how hot the blade and hilt become during the process, this will safeguard against over heating. I can understand your caution with attempts to remove the hilt on this keris. I have had two Palembang tangs break while attempting to remove a rusted on hilt. I suspect that perhaps the adhesive that they used to use in that area may have had a corrosive effect. If this were my keris I would try the heat first, but I would not exert excessive force in trying to twist it off. If you are bound and determined not to remove the hilt, the blade can be cleaned by repeated brushing with a mild acid, and rinse with water. Freshly squeezed lime juice will do it. It would probably be a good idea to coat the selut with nail polish, and to wrap the hilt with plastic cling wrap before you start. The nail polish will come off easily with acetone, when you finish the job.

16th September 2011, 05:41 PM	#8
Unkiemonk Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2	Hi all, Hoping this thread may find some new activity as it touches on carving styles of the Lampung region. I acquired what I believe to be a late 18th century south Sumatran war canoe prow some time ago and have had some degree of trouble confirming its place of manufacture. After stumbling across this thread and references to hilts of the Lampung region in Gaspard de Narval’s ‘Ukiran’, the stylistic similarities between the prow and the Jawa Demam hilts of Lampung are the closest I have yet identified. To me, the spiral eyes and wing motif are the most similar stylistic traits to that seen on the Lampung hilts, though this may be way off the mark.The shortage of texts on Lampung carving styles/motifs has left me a little frustrated, so I was hoping for any and all suggestions or thoughts on the prow, including suggested reading. Any thoughts on tribal origin, motif (Garuda?), symbolism, type of timber (Teak?), or age, would be greatly appreciated. Some incised decoration depicting a bull/buffalo, centipede and possibly a scorpion appear on the neck of the prow (unsure of their symbolic meaning). Many thanks, Unk [IMG]www.flickr.com/photos/67622735@N06/6152721025/[/IMG]

20th September 2011, 01:29 AM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	^^^ This . We need pictures for the archive; not links . Links die and then the thread becomes useless .