Odd sword that sold at Dorotheum

[Iain]

Thought this would make an interesting discussion item, it sold earlier this month. Auction description lists 15th century European blade and 17th century central Asian hilt.

Blade has an inlaid cross while the hilt shows an interesting dragon motif on the tip of the remaining quillion.

[Iain]

Surprised this hasn't generated any interest.

For me, it looks to have Nasrid influence?

[Jim McDougall]

I agree Iain, this certainly does seem to reflect Nasrid influence, and though the hilting seems later than the blade, still appears reasonably early in this incarnation. It appears one of the downturned quillons is broken off in the 'revival' style context seen here, and the rather 'blockish' stylization of the dragon (makara) form recalls the Ottoman/Persian type influence often diffused into Central Asian regions.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I agree Iain, this certainly does seem to reflect Nasrid influence, and though the hilting seems later than the blade, still appears reasonably early in this incarnation. It appears one of the downturned quillons is broken off in the 'revival' style context seen here, and the rather 'blockish' stylization of the dragon (makara) form recalls the Ottoman/Persian type influence often diffused into Central Asian regions.

Salaams Iain and Jim ~ This looks like influence from the Schiavona in the pommel and hilt though strange cuff and quillons suggest something more like the Wallace style of cuff. The blade has the look of a Solingen. The turned down quillons in Naga form are a further puzzle; The style usually seen is at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17430 in the second picture on the left of view. This one seems to be earlier or older looking and not so rigid.

Possible Constantinople weapon?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Iain and Jim ~ This looks like influence from the Schiavona in the pommel and hilt though strange cuff and quillons suggest something more like the Wallace style of cuff. The blade has the look of a Solingen. The turned down quillons in Naga form are a further puzzle; The style usually seen is at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17430 in the second picture on the left of view. This one seems to be earlier or older looking and not so rigid.

Possible Constantinople weapon?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hi Ibrahiim,

There's nothing really schiavona like in the pommel in my view. It's not a "cat's head". It's a style of pommel known in the Oakeshott typology as Type I1, popular in the 14 and 15th centuries.

The blade could well be a German product although that's somewhat indeterminate from the imagery available. The auction house dating of 15th century seems plausible due the mark and style of inlay.

I wouldn't describe the quillions as "naga" that's a term related specifically to Buddhist and Hindu mythology. They are dragons from what we can see in the images. The arms and ornate collar are highly reminiscent of jineta. However the dragon form does point away from classical Nasrid designs.

In the image you linked - that's a Qajar revival piece from the 19th century.

The piece under discussion does not fit anything visible in the icongraphy or archeology of Byzantine or Trebizond that I'm aware of.


The Persian idea is interesting Jim, as I recall Chinese style dragons (as these seem to be from the head shape) started to be in vogue during the Timurid period.

The pommel looks potentially older than the rest of the hilt assembly to me...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi Ibrahiim,

There's nothing really schiavona like in the pommel in my view. It's not a "cat's head". It's a style of pommel known in the Oakeshott typology as Type I1, popular in the 14 and 15th centuries.

The blade could well be a German product although that's somewhat indeterminate from the imagery available. The auction house dating of 15th century seems plausible due the mark and style of inlay.

I wouldn't describe the quillions as "naga" that's a term related specifically to Buddhist and Hindu mythology. They are dragons from what we can see in the images. The arms and ornate collar are highly reminiscent of jineta. However the dragon form does point away from classical Nasrid designs.

In the image you linked - that's a Qajar revival piece from the 19th century.

The piece under discussion does not fit anything visible in the icongraphy or archeology of Byzantine or Trebizond that I'm aware of.


The Persian idea is interesting Jim, as I recall Chinese style dragons (as these seem to be from the head shape) started to be in vogue during the Timurid period.

The pommel looks potentially older than the rest of the hilt assembly to me...

Salaams Iain, It may indeed be an Oakeshott Type XI. Readers may see https://www.google.com/search?q=oake...&bih=665&dpr=1 plus a vast array of other available data on probably the greatest ever specialist historian on medieval swords .. Actually I didn't get much in feedback when I typed Oakshott wrongly misspelled !! into library search but with the correction now giving lots of references... OAKESHOTT.

There were a number of Oakeshott styles made in Spain, Italy and Germany and some ended up in armouries in Alexandria and plundered in and out of Mamluke hands etc. Some were Milanese with an M stamp. The Nasrid form seems to be there and I also agree on a mixed hilt/blade situation here. The quite big decorated cuff is interesting... I haven't seen that yet in Oakeshott Type XI but as it states in the great masters guide on this vast array of swords a degree of flexibility is required when viewing such examples.

The work already at Library will take me a while to plough through but I look forward to that.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.