A Venetian Barbute of ca. 1470

Ed · 10th December 2008, 07:28 PM

This thing is probably the nicest object in my collection.

Classic form, exquisitely executed.

There is some indication that the opening for the face has been jiggered with, probably long ago.

Unknown provanence except that it came from the Douglass Collection and so might have been purchased on a trip that Douglass made with von Kienbush to Europe. Might have been purchased thru the flegling Arms and Armor Club in NYC which was founded by Dean, Douglass, Kienbush et al.

It's unfortunate that even for relatively important pieces such as this, history is more often than not non existant.

Ed · 10th December 2008, 07:31 PM

Here is a drawing with the various holes laid out.

The photo of the helmet shows the various things that might have been affixed.

rand · 11th December 2008, 01:47 AM

HI Ed,

Nice posting of your helmet, it is indeed an excellent example. Am in total agreement with your theory of this being originally cloth covered helmet. The total craftsmanship of your helm is extremely fine. The allignment of the holes, along with the cloth covered example with an almost identical set-up, you posted are very surprisingly similar helmet, much more so than I would have expected .

rand

Ed · 11th December 2008, 02:14 AM

I guess that uniforms were uniforms.

rand · 11th December 2008, 02:24 AM

Have been researching the possibility of cloth covered turban helms from about the same time period as your helm, there are extremely few examples left in Islamic cloth covered helms, have only found a few examples so far and unfortunately the online photo's are copyrighted so cannot share.

Am not sure if the cloth covered ones were made in smaller numbers or not, but it does seem that there are fewer surviving examples that have the holes that allign as yours does to allow for it. In that sense it seems a rarer form. Just really like the subtle lines your helmet has, rings quality all the way through.....

The use of cloth(velvet?) definately makes for the possibilty of a more decorative helm.

rand

Ed · 11th December 2008, 03:26 AM

A couple of thoughts on the topic. Helmets like this had inner padding to cushion blows. Now, I think that to affix such a lining there are only so many reasonable ways to go about it. I think that the decorations in the felt covered helm are fancy rivet heads that take the terminal of the thing that attaches the lining and makes it decorative.

Here are some outline drawings of helmets of this class, more or less, and the arrangement of holes on them.

This is from Grancsay's article on Barbutes in the Bulletin of the Met.

10th December 2008, 07:28 PM	#1
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 220	A Venetian Barbute of ca. 1470 This thing is probably the nicest object in my collection. Classic form, exquisitely executed. There is some indication that the opening for the face has been jiggered with, probably long ago. Unknown provanence except that it came from the Douglass Collection and so might have been purchased on a trip that Douglass made with von Kienbush to Europe. Might have been purchased thru the flegling Arms and Armor Club in NYC which was founded by Dean, Douglass, Kienbush et al. It's unfortunate that even for relatively important pieces such as this, history is more often than not non existant. Attached Images

10th December 2008, 07:31 PM	#2
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 220	Here is a drawing with the various holes laid out. The photo of the helmet shows the various things that might have been affixed. Attached Images

11th December 2008, 01:47 AM	#3
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	HI Ed, Nice posting of your helmet, it is indeed an excellent example. Am in total agreement with your theory of this being originally cloth covered helmet. The total craftsmanship of your helm is extremely fine. The allignment of the holes, along with the cloth covered example with an almost identical set-up, you posted are very surprisingly similar helmet, much more so than I would have expected . rand

11th December 2008, 02:14 AM	#4
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 220	I guess that uniforms were uniforms.

11th December 2008, 02:24 AM	#5
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Have been researching the possibility of cloth covered turban helms from about the same time period as your helm, there are extremely few examples left in Islamic cloth covered helms, have only found a few examples so far and unfortunately the online photo's are copyrighted so cannot share. Am not sure if the cloth covered ones were made in smaller numbers or not, but it does seem that there are fewer surviving examples that have the holes that allign as yours does to allow for it. In that sense it seems a rarer form. Just really like the subtle lines your helmet has, rings quality all the way through..... The use of cloth(velvet?) definately makes for the possibilty of a more decorative helm. rand

11th December 2008, 03:26 AM	#6
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 220	A couple of thoughts on the topic. Helmets like this had inner padding to cushion blows. Now, I think that to affix such a lining there are only so many reasonable ways to go about it. I think that the decorations in the felt covered helm are fancy rivet heads that take the terminal of the thing that attaches the lining and makes it decorative. Here are some outline drawings of helmets of this class, more or less, and the arrangement of holes on them. This is from Grancsay's article on Barbutes in the Bulletin of the Met.