Another Dayak Sword

Dinggat · 26th October 2010, 09:57 PM

Hallo guys!

Had the opportunity to see the private collection of an Indonesian whom I met this summer in the province of Kalimantan Barat. Among the edged weapons was one Dayak parang, and I just wanted to ask if someone maybe wants to comment. Real? Old? What Dayak-subgroup? Unfortunately, these two are the only photos as I was kinda rushed through that room in true Indonesian style

Thus I don't know what the blade looks like.

Comments on the other visible swords are also welcome, of course.

greetings and thanks

VANDOO · 26th October 2010, 10:28 PM

THE DAYAK SWORD IS NOT AN OLD ONE BUT WAS MADE IN BORNEO. I SAW SOME LIKE IT IN SHOPS IN KUCHING AS WELL AS FOR SALE ON EBAY 2001 THRU PRESENT. THE MORE ATTRACTIVE ONES HAD NICELY CARVED BONE SECTIONS ATTACHED TO THE SCABBARD NOT JUST CARVED WOOD. WHERE IN BORNEO THEY WERE CARVED I DON'T KNOW.
THE TOP SWORD LOOKS TO BE FROM ONE OF THE INDONESIAN ISLANDS PERHAPS TORAJA OR TIMOR. THE NEXT ONE IS AN ACTUAL MILITARY SWORD. THE LAST ONE I CAN'T TELL MUCH ABOUT BUT DOSEN'T LOOK OLD.
HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF AN EXAMPLE CLOSE TO WHAT YOU SHOW. THIS ONE WAS DESCRIBED AS MADE OF CARVED BONE HARD TO TELL FROM PICTURES BUT I HAVE SEEN THEM IN WOOD AND BONE. THE BONE EXAMPLES COULD LIKELY BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE SWORD IN THE SMALL SHOP UNLESS THEY DEAL IN REAL ANTIQUES. MOST SHOPS I SAW IN BORNEO HAD FEW OR NO GOOD OLD TOP QUALITY MANDAU FOR SALE. THERE WERE LOTS OF SWORDS FROM NEW TO PERHAPS 50 T0 80 YEARS OLD BUT FEW 100 YEAR OLD ONES AVAILABLE. THERE IS QUITE A VARIETY OF ITEMS TO BE SEEN AND A TRIP TO BORNEO IS FUN AND VERY INTERESTING.
THOSE WITH MONEY BUT LITTLE KNOWLEGE WILL OFTEN BUY THE MOST EXPENSIVE AND ATTRACTIVE/ EYE CATCHING ITEM. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AND HIS FRIENDS WILL BE IMPRESSED. I AM FAR FROM AN EXPERT OR CONNISOUR OF DAYAK WEAPONS AND HAVE BOUGHT THINGS THAT THOSE WITH TRUE KNOWLEGE WOULD TURN THEIR NOSE UP AT, BUT THATS WHAT KEEPS IT INTERESTING AND FUN. IT ALSO MAKES A MARKET FOR OBSOLETE ITEMS SO SMALL SHOPS WILL CONTINUE TO MAKE AND MARKET THEM.

Sajen · 27th October 2010, 12:10 AM

Any chance to post bigger pictures?

Dinggat · 27th October 2010, 12:29 AM

VANDOO, thanks for the answer. It surprises me a bit that this is not an original piece, as the owner was a little wealthier than the average Indonesian and seemed quite proud of his collection. But I trust your expertise no doubt. Maybe he was tricked by the seller himself.

Sajen, you get full resolution if you "click to zoom" on the imageshack website and then save the photo on your harddrive. If you already knew that and ask for even higher resolution, unfortunately no, this is already full resolution. My camera only has 6 Megapixels, which is far below average for 2010 standards, but well, it's all I got.

Rick · 27th October 2010, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinggat

VANDOO, thanks for the answer. It surprises me a bit that this is not an original piece, as the owner was a little wealthier than the average Indonesian and seemed quite proud of his collection. But I trust your expertise no doubt. Maybe he was tricked by the seller himself.

Sajen, you get full resolution if you "click to zoom" on the imageshack website and then save the photo on your harddrive. If you already knew that and ask for even higher resolution, unfortunately no, this is already full resolution. My camera only has 6 Megapixels, which is far below average for 2010 standards, but well, it's all I got.

You can also upload your photos directly to our database for posterity and continuation of the thread's integrity in case they get removed from your hosting site in the future .
We prefer that if possible .

Any questions; feel free to ask .

Dinggat · 27th October 2010, 11:42 AM

I tried to, but the upload tool says that my pictures exceed the maximum size limit. As I think the bigger the better for seeing details I decided to go with an external hoster instead of resizing.

Thanks at all for those informations. Most welcome

Amuk Murugul · 27th October 2010, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinggat

.....
Comments on the other visible swords are also welcome, of course.

..

Hullo everybody

The second sword from the top looks like what the Soenda call: Gobang Kalewang. It looks locally-made. If the blade is hand-forged, then it could be an original from circa 1902, probably made in Soerabaja or Soemedang(which, around 1850-1930 was the local "Solingen").

The last sword looks like a Middle-eastern type popular in Indonesia and referred to by the Soenda as: Saif (Arabic for sword). It may have been made locally (I'd have to see the blade).

Best,

asomotif · 2nd November 2010, 09:02 AM

Quote:

I believe the Kalewang handguard to be a direct copy of the Dutch Cavalry Officer's Sabre M1876 minus the irritating protrusion.

I stand corrected. the most direct source is indeed the M1876 handguard.

Quote:

I believe both Lilley-Ames and Vince also produced guards with 'square corners' for the 1941 KNIL contract.

Will check.

Dear Amuk,
I was not looking for a debate. This would be useless as the klewang has so many variants. Puypes book is based on the collection of the Legermuseum in Delft. Other sources might well bring to light other facts. Even specialists would disagree on certain things.
My main issue was to point out that although locally developped, the design of the Klewang is based on European blades.

Best regards,
Willem

26th October 2010, 09:57 PM	#1
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	Another Dayak Sword Hallo guys! Had the opportunity to see the private collection of an Indonesian whom I met this summer in the province of Kalimantan Barat. Among the edged weapons was one Dayak parang, and I just wanted to ask if someone maybe wants to comment. Real? Old? What Dayak-subgroup? Unfortunately, these two are the only photos as I was kinda rushed through that room in true Indonesian style Thus I don't know what the blade looks like. Comments on the other visible swords are also welcome, of course. greetings and thanks

26th October 2010, 10:28 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE DAYAK SWORD IS NOT AN OLD ONE BUT WAS MADE IN BORNEO. I SAW SOME LIKE IT IN SHOPS IN KUCHING AS WELL AS FOR SALE ON EBAY 2001 THRU PRESENT. THE MORE ATTRACTIVE ONES HAD NICELY CARVED BONE SECTIONS ATTACHED TO THE SCABBARD NOT JUST CARVED WOOD. WHERE IN BORNEO THEY WERE CARVED I DON'T KNOW. THE TOP SWORD LOOKS TO BE FROM ONE OF THE INDONESIAN ISLANDS PERHAPS TORAJA OR TIMOR. THE NEXT ONE IS AN ACTUAL MILITARY SWORD. THE LAST ONE I CAN'T TELL MUCH ABOUT BUT DOSEN'T LOOK OLD. HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF AN EXAMPLE CLOSE TO WHAT YOU SHOW. THIS ONE WAS DESCRIBED AS MADE OF CARVED BONE HARD TO TELL FROM PICTURES BUT I HAVE SEEN THEM IN WOOD AND BONE. THE BONE EXAMPLES COULD LIKELY BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE SWORD IN THE SMALL SHOP UNLESS THEY DEAL IN REAL ANTIQUES. MOST SHOPS I SAW IN BORNEO HAD FEW OR NO GOOD OLD TOP QUALITY MANDAU FOR SALE. THERE WERE LOTS OF SWORDS FROM NEW TO PERHAPS 50 T0 80 YEARS OLD BUT FEW 100 YEAR OLD ONES AVAILABLE. THERE IS QUITE A VARIETY OF ITEMS TO BE SEEN AND A TRIP TO BORNEO IS FUN AND VERY INTERESTING. THOSE WITH MONEY BUT LITTLE KNOWLEGE WILL OFTEN BUY THE MOST EXPENSIVE AND ATTRACTIVE/ EYE CATCHING ITEM. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AND HIS FRIENDS WILL BE IMPRESSED. I AM FAR FROM AN EXPERT OR CONNISOUR OF DAYAK WEAPONS AND HAVE BOUGHT THINGS THAT THOSE WITH TRUE KNOWLEGE WOULD TURN THEIR NOSE UP AT, BUT THATS WHAT KEEPS IT INTERESTING AND FUN. IT ALSO MAKES A MARKET FOR OBSOLETE ITEMS SO SMALL SHOPS WILL CONTINUE TO MAKE AND MARKET THEM. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 27th October 2010 at 04:56 PM.

27th October 2010, 12:10 AM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Any chance to post bigger pictures?

27th October 2010, 12:29 AM	#4
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	VANDOO, thanks for the answer. It surprises me a bit that this is not an original piece, as the owner was a little wealthier than the average Indonesian and seemed quite proud of his collection. But I trust your expertise no doubt. Maybe he was tricked by the seller himself. Sajen, you get full resolution if you "click to zoom" on the imageshack website and then save the photo on your harddrive. If you already knew that and ask for even higher resolution, unfortunately no, this is already full resolution. My camera only has 6 Megapixels, which is far below average for 2010 standards, but well, it's all I got.

27th October 2010, 11:42 AM	#6
Dinggat Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 29	I tried to, but the upload tool says that my pictures exceed the maximum size limit. As I think the bigger the better for seeing details I decided to go with an external hoster instead of resizing. Thanks at all for those informations. Most welcome