Another cup hilt rapier

fernando · 20th May 2012, 07:50 PM

This one is a bit more sophisticated, as its hilt is more elaborated, in a way an added value evolution of the basic cup bowl.
We call this cup Margarida (daisy=flower), to distinguish it from the classic shell cup.
The copper grip wiring sure looks original with its 'twist' efect, locked by two nice copper turkish heads.
The pommel shows some decoration.
Also worthy of note is what apparently seems to be a quite atypical guarda polvo (dust guard) device, which is not the usual detachabale washer but a convex cup, forming one only piece with the arms that are welded to the quillons for the cup guard fixation.
The lenticular double edged blade is 86 cms long and 23 m/m wide, bearing a poorly stoke mark in both sides that i can't (so far) identify. I would say that it is more frequent to see sword makers marks in the recazo inside the cup and not in the forte, like this one. Could it be an inspection mark, like that the crowned T used by the city of Toledo ? ... But in both sides?
The 'worm' waving mark is not an uncommon sign, but i ignore what it means.
The whole sword measure 1,050 Mts and the blade point of balance is 13 cms. from the quillons. Total weight 907 grams.
Again i thank the members for opinions and any possible help on the marks.

.

Norman McCormick · 20th May 2012, 11:09 PM

Hi Fernando,
Lovely items both

you are becoming quite the 'swashbuckler'!!!!

My Regards,
Norman.

Rick · 21st May 2012, 12:18 AM

Looks like the devil's tail on the blade .

Chris Evans · 21st May 2012, 01:12 AM

Fernando,

Thanks for posting the measurements.

The blade seems a bit short for a rapier. Did you take it from the cup or the quillons?

Cheers
Chris

fernando · 21st May 2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

... The blade seems a bit short for a rapier. Did you take it from the cup or the quillons? ...

From the cup; from the quillons will be 92,5 cms.

Chris Evans · 23rd May 2012, 01:55 AM

Hi Fernando,

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

From the cup; from the quillons will be 92,5 cms.

That's more like it - Corresponds to a transition era rapier's length.

Cheers
Chris

fernando · 21st May 2012, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Looks like the devil's tail on the blade .

You mean that little V in the end of the worm ?

fernando · 21st May 2012, 03:41 PM

New pictures of the mark.

.

cornelistromp · 21st May 2012, 07:13 PM

the v is the "stylistic" head of the serpent/dragon, I have a medieval sword in my collection 13thC, with a similar inlay.
A snake is in the Christian symbolism a symbol of the Fall and a symbol of life.

best,

20th May 2012, 07:50 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Another cup hilt rapier This one is a bit more sophisticated, as its hilt is more elaborated, in a way an added value evolution of the basic cup bowl. We call this cup Margarida (daisy=flower), to distinguish it from the classic shell cup. The copper grip wiring sure looks original with its 'twist' efect, locked by two nice copper turkish heads. The pommel shows some decoration. Also worthy of note is what apparently seems to be a quite atypical guarda polvo (dust guard) device, which is not the usual detachabale washer but a convex cup, forming one only piece with the arms that are welded to the quillons for the cup guard fixation. The lenticular double edged blade is 86 cms long and 23 m/m wide, bearing a poorly stoke mark in both sides that i can't (so far) identify. I would say that it is more frequent to see sword makers marks in the recazo inside the cup and not in the forte, like this one. Could it be an inspection mark, like that the crowned T used by the city of Toledo ? ... But in both sides? The 'worm' waving mark is not an uncommon sign, but i ignore what it means. The whole sword measure 1,050 Mts and the blade point of balance is 13 cms. from the quillons. Total weight 907 grams. Again i thank the members for opinions and any possible help on the marks. . Attached Images

21st May 2012, 03:41 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	New pictures of the mark. . Attached Images

21st May 2012, 07:13 PM	#9
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	the v is the "stylistic" head of the serpent/dragon, I have a medieval sword in my collection 13thC, with a similar inlay. A snake is in the Christian symbolism a symbol of the Fall and a symbol of life. best, Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 21st May 2012 at 07:24 PM.

20th May 2012, 11:09 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,598	Hi Fernando, Lovely items both you are becoming quite the 'swashbuckler'!!!! My Regards, Norman.

21st May 2012, 12:18 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Looks like the devil's tail on the blade .

21st May 2012, 01:12 AM	#4
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 682	Fernando, Thanks for posting the measurements. The blade seems a bit short for a rapier. Did you take it from the cup or the quillons? Cheers Chris