Close Style Helmet Addendum

BobR61 · 12th December 2023, 09:11 PM

Hello Everyone

Thank you for the help and support on my previous thread regarding this particular helmet. Much appreciated. I would like to add a bit more information and pictures.What I am really asking is, could this be a real piece and not a Victorian copy. Based upon my research, this same helmet was featured in The Museum of Historical Arms, in January, 1965. They did not know what the metal was, they stated could be silver, but doubted. They felt it could be old Sheffield.

I have further found a similar helmet which talks of similar helmets belonging to the same group as the embossed armours of Erik XIV and three others, all in museums. Apparently there is a embossed half-armour which was in the Magniac (1890) and the MacKay Collections (Christies 1939, lot 58) and an embossed comb morion in the Warsaw Museum. I have not been able to find any pictures.

I found the same helmet on pinterest, a picture, posted on flicker.com under helmets, posted by blauepics on flickr, from the Santiago de Cuba, Casa Diego Velazquez, Spanish Steel helmet with a description stating that Diego Velazquez de Cuellar was active in leading the conquest of Cuba in 1511 under orders from Diego Columbus, recently restored as Viceroy of the Indies. He founded a number of new Spanish settlements and cities on the island, first Barcelona in 1511 and then most notably Santiago de Cuba in 1514 and Havana in 1515. The house used to be his residence.

Based on this information, where do I go from here with this? How do you know when you have a very good copy compared to an authentic one?

The helmet is a hefty 11.4lbs and it's measurements are 12 3/4" H x 9 3/4" W (measured from the pins) and front tip to back is 14 1/2".

I have attached further images of this piece.

I know it is something and not a cheap copy by far. However, I am no expert and at a loss as to where to go from here. I truly appreciate everyone's comments on this, anything helps. Thank you very much everyone!

Cheers
Bob

Raf · 13th December 2023, 02:54 PM

Thank you for posting some more pictures . Sorry to disappoint but we can say definitively that this is not a sixteenth century helmet . An original would have been made in steel by the repoussé, method of decorating in which parts of the design are raised in relief from the back or the inside of the article by means of hammers and punches; definition and detail added from the front by chasing or engraving. Your hemet is clearly made by a casting process but is in all probability a cast made directly from a sixteen century original . Therefore should be traceable to a museum somewhere

It is likely to be cast iron or steel but if you are not sure check it with a magnet. If its non magnetic then the material will be spelter , a low temperature casting alloy or an electrotype , copper electroplated onto the interior of a conductive mould.

The attached image shows a similar helmet which is a Victorian copy of the original King Henry II of Frances’ parade helmet by Filippo Negroli in 1553. Filippo Negroli (ca. 1510–1579) was an armourer from Milan. It is one of a series authorised by Henry Cole of the South Kensington Museum (later the Victoria and Albert Museum) made by Elkington. A mid nineteenth century British company known for high quality metalwork and the early development of electroplating. Cole drew up the “International Convention for Promoting Universal Reproductions of Works of Art”. Elkington pieces were produced for for exhibition and all were of exceptional quality and produced in extremely limited editions.

BobR61 · 13th December 2023, 04:50 PM

Hello Everyone

Thank you everyone so much for the additional information provided on this helmet. I knew it was a very long shot of a "original", we can all be so lucky! Lol! However, my question was more than answered and I now have additional resources to research this piece further.

I truly appreciate all the information that has been provided to me. Thank you for all your expertise.

Cheers,

Bob

12th December 2023, 09:11 PM	#1
BobR61 Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 6	Close Style Helmet Addendum Hello Everyone Thank you for the help and support on my previous thread regarding this particular helmet. Much appreciated. I would like to add a bit more information and pictures.What I am really asking is, could this be a real piece and not a Victorian copy. Based upon my research, this same helmet was featured in The Museum of Historical Arms, in January, 1965. They did not know what the metal was, they stated could be silver, but doubted. They felt it could be old Sheffield. I have further found a similar helmet which talks of similar helmets belonging to the same group as the embossed armours of Erik XIV and three others, all in museums. Apparently there is a embossed half-armour which was in the Magniac (1890) and the MacKay Collections (Christies 1939, lot 58) and an embossed comb morion in the Warsaw Museum. I have not been able to find any pictures. I found the same helmet on pinterest, a picture, posted on flicker.com under helmets, posted by blauepics on flickr, from the Santiago de Cuba, Casa Diego Velazquez, Spanish Steel helmet with a description stating that Diego Velazquez de Cuellar was active in leading the conquest of Cuba in 1511 under orders from Diego Columbus, recently restored as Viceroy of the Indies. He founded a number of new Spanish settlements and cities on the island, first Barcelona in 1511 and then most notably Santiago de Cuba in 1514 and Havana in 1515. The house used to be his residence. Based on this information, where do I go from here with this? How do you know when you have a very good copy compared to an authentic one? The helmet is a hefty 11.4lbs and it's measurements are 12 3/4" H x 9 3/4" W (measured from the pins) and front tip to back is 14 1/2". I have attached further images of this piece. I know it is something and not a cheap copy by far. However, I am no expert and at a loss as to where to go from here. I truly appreciate everyone's comments on this, anything helps. Thank you very much everyone! Cheers Bob Attached Images

13th December 2023, 02:54 PM	#2
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Thank you for posting some more pictures . Sorry to disappoint but we can say definitively that this is not a sixteenth century helmet . An original would have been made in steel by the repoussé, method of decorating in which parts of the design are raised in relief from the back or the inside of the article by means of hammers and punches; definition and detail added from the front by chasing or engraving. Your hemet is clearly made by a casting process but is in all probability a cast made directly from a sixteen century original . Therefore should be traceable to a museum somewhere It is likely to be cast iron or steel but if you are not sure check it with a magnet. If its non magnetic then the material will be spelter , a low temperature casting alloy or an electrotype , copper electroplated onto the interior of a conductive mould. The attached image shows a similar helmet which is a Victorian copy of the original King Henry II of Frances’ parade helmet by Filippo Negroli in 1553. Filippo Negroli (ca. 1510–1579) was an armourer from Milan. It is one of a series authorised by Henry Cole of the South Kensington Museum (later the Victoria and Albert Museum) made by Elkington. A mid nineteenth century British company known for high quality metalwork and the early development of electroplating. Cole drew up the “International Convention for Promoting Universal Reproductions of Works of Art”. Elkington pieces were produced for for exhibition and all were of exceptional quality and produced in extremely limited editions. Attached Images

13th December 2023, 04:50 PM	#3
BobR61 Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 6	Close Style Helmet Addendum Hello Everyone Thank you everyone so much for the additional information provided on this helmet. I knew it was a very long shot of a "original", we can all be so lucky! Lol! However, my question was more than answered and I now have additional resources to research this piece further. I truly appreciate all the information that has been provided to me. Thank you for all your expertise. Cheers, Bob